When is a coin not a coin?

[DisplayNameisRob 0]

Hi All,

First things first, I am not a coin collector (even though my dad tried to get me into it!)

My elderly father-in-law, however, has quite a collection of silver and is understandably curious to know if he is sitting on highly sought after pieces or just shiney objects from around the world, so i'm helping him out.

The problem is, alot of his items, although look like coins, are not coins at all. Commemorative medals? Ingots? I have no idea even if they are considered "collectables" at all. (I wont waste your time with those, although if anyone can point me to a more appropriate forum, it would be appreciuated)

I have uploaded a handful of photos

here

So, I have a few questions that I hope you would be able to help me with...

How do you define a "coin"?

How do you define a "british coin"? (e.g. is Gibralter "British")

How would we be able to tell if a "silver" coin is actually a fake?

Is there an "idiots guide" to grading?

Many thanks for your help.

Rob

[copper123 1,485]

Sounds like he bought a load of stuff through newspapers etc

You could well have bad news coming esp if non of it is made out of silver

[TomGoodheart 400]

Hi Rob. From a glance at the photos what your father-in-law has a mix of what are called 'commemoratives' and bullion bars.

The comemoratives are not really coins and are generally produced by places like Turks & Caicos or Guernsey to raise revenue. At best they will be made from silver and so worth bullion / melt price. Sadly the fact that they look pretty doesn't increase the value, unless you can find someone that collects such things. There must be some out there but most coin collectors aren't interested. The bars are just a way of buying silver, but again likely at a makr up.

A coin is made to circulate, ie: to be used to buy goods and services. Gibraltar does produce it's own coinage, but I doubt any of these are coins as such. As copper said, it looks as if they were bought from magazine adverts which tell you how scarce they are and how they are silver but don't mention that they are no different from commemorative plates, mugs or porcelain dogs. The only sure fire way to make money from them is to be the one selling to the public.

I suggest you check for certificates that confirm what metal the 'coin' or bar is made from (there are occasionally platinum issues). Any without you might have to assume they are base metal, though a jeweller can check.

With effort they might sell on ebay, or as a lot at auction or to a dealer/jeweller for just under melt value.

[DaveG38 405]

The one positive aspect is that if they are silver (need to check) then the price of silver has gone up significantly in recent years and this may help to offset some of the losses on the value compared to the original retail price. For instance, about 5 years ago, silver was around £5-6 per once. It's now £18.50, and was near £30 about a year ago. Having said this, on ebay you may get a bit over melt, but remember the 10% final fees.

[Peter 615]

Hi

The first thing in collecting is to learn NEVER buy from magazines,newspapers et all.

That is if you want to buy value or maybe make a profit.

There are not dedicated sites for these items (check Ebay is your best bet).

Sorry but the buyer has been ripped off.

[azda 979]

The one positive aspect is that if they are silver (need to check) then the price of silver has gone up significantly in recent years and this may help to offset some of the losses on the value compared to the original retail price. For instance, about 5 years ago, silver was around £5-6 per once. It's now £18.50, and was near £30 about a year ago. Having said this, on ebay you may get a bit over melt, but remember the 10% final fees.

13.5% fees if its paid by Paypal, they take 3.5% to

Edited June 4, 2012 by azda

[copper123 1,485]

I would say a blanket ban on buying coins in newspapers is good advice in general , but I do remember buying a silver dollar in 1998 through the post , it cost me £5.99 if i remember rightly and is worth around £40 now

[Generic Lad 25]

With the price of silver I'd say you should be able to get back at least what you paid for them back in the 1960s and perhaps make some extra cash. Yes, they really aren't good collector coins, but people who collect other stuff might want them. For example, rather than advertising your Gibraltar crown as a coin to collectors, market it as a WWII collectible and silver bullion instead.

[DaveG38 405]

The one positive aspect is that if they are silver (need to check) then the price of silver has gone up significantly in recent years and this may help to offset some of the losses on the value compared to the original retail price. For instance, about 5 years ago, silver was around £5-6 per once. It's now £18.50, and was near £30 about a year ago. Having said this, on ebay you may get a bit over melt, but remember the 10% final fees.

13.5% fees if its paid by Paypal, they take 3.5% to

Absolutely right - there's paypal too.

[DisplayNameisRob 0]

Sorry but the buyer has been ripped off.

Thanks, but surely being "ripped off" would only be the case if he had been told these things were worth more than they are. But he just likes these things. ... he probably has some of those porcelain dogs too

I don't think he bought these items under the belief they were coins. (Although there may be some that he did!) I think he's just a bit of a magpie.

Although it may be true that the "medals" will not have a resale value, my main reason for posting was to ask advice about how to differentiate a "coin" from something that is not. For example, the gibralter "coin" has "20 crowns" on it. How would i know that this was not a circulated coin? Or is it simply experience?

For the record, he does have a large collection of actual coins but as stated on this thread, there doesn't seem to be a community for "commemoratives" hence me posting here. I've got a lot of questions about it...who knows, I might end up making my dad proud after all!

[pies 33]

I would call a coin something that was minted as legal tender

[Peckris 579]

Although it may be true that the "medals" will not have a resale value, my main reason for posting was to ask advice about how to differentiate a "coin" from something that is not. For example, the gibralter "coin" has "20 crowns" on it. How would i know that this was not a circulated coin? Or is it simply experience?

For the record, he does have a large collection of actual coins but as stated on this thread, there doesn't seem to be a community for "commemoratives" hence me posting here. I've got a lot of questions about it...who knows, I might end up making my dad proud after all!

There are some coins that are issued in special packs - GB proof sets and BU specimen sets come to mind - but mostly the way to differntiate real coins from commemoratives is to check

1. Who issued them (only the Royal Mint issues GB coins, though they also issue some commemoratives)

2. How were they described (commems are usually not described as actual coins, due to Trades Descriptions)

3. Were they sold at a premium over the metal content (though the same applies to proofs and specimens too)

Summary - if the "coin" was issued in identical design for circulation as money (which would also apply to proofs even though they don't circulate), then it's a coin. Otherwise it isn't. You can check in Spink's Coins of England issued annually - there are some commems in there under Elizabeth II, e.g. Britannias - but until the modern decimal series, everything in there is a coin. If it's not in Spink, then it's definitely not a GB coin.

[DisplayNameisRob 0]

Thanks everyone. There seems to be rules...but like any rules, there are exceptions. I guess it would be niave to think I could learn this stuff so quickly.

The good news is we have confirmed he has at least some genuine coins (including COA from the royal mint) - he has a few gold proof half crowns that he bought 30-40 years ago that appear to be worth considerably more than he paid for them now.

But for the time being, he is not intending to sell. I guess my wife has these to look forward to as her inheritance

Just one last question (for now). As he is Chinese, he has many chinese coins as well as british. Would foreign coins be less sought after in Britain? Or are there just as many collectors of foreign coins?

Thanks for you help.

Rob

[copper123 1,485]

there is one very simple answer to the question above.

WHEN IT DOES NOT CIRCULATE

[TomGoodheart 400]

I couldn't see the 20 Crowns coin in the photos but as Gibraltar uses the pound for currency that sounds an odd denomintaion. Though as a crown is 5 shillings (25p) effectively that would be a £5 coin. Photos?

The Gibraltar piece that is photographed appears to be a medal, like this one: Gibraltar New Constitution though 'yours' appears to be silver and so worth more.

As to the Chinese coins, as with most things Chinese, the market is largely in China and there's plenty of new money and interest in antiquities. Depending on what your father-in-law has, if he ever wanted to sell, his best bet might be a larger auction house with Far Eastern contacts/ representation.

[bagerap 706]

Twenty crowns sounds like Turks & Caicos Islands. Mostly dreadful stuff, but people do buy them (thank God)