Crosses Scratched in the Fields of Hammered?

[Coinery 1,157]

It's interesting that Elizabeth adopted the 'no mark of value,' when Edward before her, and monarchs subsequently, had them on the shillings!

I feel that's a bit of a eureka moment!

[Rob 3,152]

It's interesting that Elizabeth adopted the 'no mark of value,' when Edward before her, and monarchs subsequently, had them on the shillings!

I feel that's a bit of a eureka moment!

That doesn't explain why there are also J1 shillings with crosses in the field too. I've even seen the odd Chas 1 shilling with a cross, but generally speaking it ended with J1

[HistoricCoinage 147]

It's interesting that Elizabeth adopted the 'no mark of value,' when Edward before her, and monarchs subsequently, had them on the shillings!

I feel that's a bit of a eureka moment!

The halfgroat pellets, though?

[TomGoodheart 403]

Mmm .. I'm not quite sure I'm convinced that Elizabethans were inclined to scratch marks on shillings to distinguish them from other denominations .. if that's what you were suggesting! I'd think those that handled cash would recognise a shilling if they saw it. And those that weren't sure ... well, surely some enterprising knave would have marked a few XIIs on some groats too, no?

I still favour a cultural explanation. Sort of cross my silver with your palm [sic], or mark a coin as yours in the hope it returns to you many times over ...

[HistoricCoinage 147]

I've always favoured a slightly more religious meaning. I've got a few gilded 'Pilgrim pence' of Elizabeth and here's one of my Philip & Mary pieces with a cross engraved on it.

[azda 979]

Firstly, what a shame the bust isn't struck-up on this one, you could cut your fingers on the legends! 261363485603 (link anyone?)

Secondly, this coin has a cross scratched into the field, BUT it also has something else that offers a strong and obvious possibily into why these coins are marked in this way?

Another interesting point, which hadn't occurred to me before, is that I haven't noticed the cross on 6d's.

Is there the red wax often associated with impressions on this example, or is the single red patch on each side associated with an old repair?

Could also be from sitting in a tray Clive

[Coinery 1,157]

I wonder whether coins would have been scratched only by those seeking to make sure the maid or boy, or even themselves, would not mistake the coinage at the market place, maybe, so would not be about deception, just about clarity, especially with other larger unmarked denominations around (even 6d's without roses, which might make you wary?)! I don't think a receiver would be taken in by a scratched cross, just useful to the bearer! I believe the scallywags would be more concerned with removing the rose from 6d's, and engraving them on half groats! I've seen two examples of poor rose engravings on halfgroats!

Re J1 crosses, it could just be a matter of habit, following a quick weighing, until the 'old problem' had passed?

Just speculation, but it really floats my boat in the absence of any historical fact!

[HistoricCoinage 147]

I don't think a receiver would be taken in by a scratched cross, just useful to the bearer! I believe the scallywags would be more concerned with removing the rose from 6d's, and engraving them on half groats! I've seen two examples of poor rose engravings on halfgroats!

What about this groat? I couldn't resist when I saw it - a 'rose' crudely engraved on it, for a coinage where there wasn't even a sixpence let alone a 'rosed' one.

[Coinery 1,157]

Great example, Clive, exactly what I was talking about! It would eventually have circulated in the time of the 6d, so presumably the point at which an upgrade was attempted!

I think I've still got a HG around with a primitively engraved rose! Can't blame 'em for trying!

[HistoricCoinage 147]

Can't blame 'em for trying!

I admire their audacity! Nearly as much as that of the early medieval counterfeiters, where I'm sure punishments were somewhat more severe.

[pokal02 44]

I had a 1662 crown which was similarly marked, confirming that the practice extended to early milled.