New Collector, looking for advice

[Guest irish79]

Hello, I am new to coin collecting and looking for advice from experienced collectors as I start to enter the hobby. My interest is driven by my love of history and genealogy, the chance of owning a piece of history that would have been in the hands of our ancestors. My desire is to start to put together a type set, starting with Victoria' reign and then work backwards and forwards from there. I was thinking of starting with either the half penny or penny. I am a bit unsure about the term "luster", I gather this is the degree of original "red" colour left on the coin (copper/bronze), but not sure how to really understand the degree a coin is considered to have luster. I am interested in about UNC or UNC coins. I have found what seem to be some of the more common dates which have a slightly lower price point for these grades, I am not looking for rarer varieties

I am also interested in how fellow collectors typically like to store and display their coins. What methods are typically used to be able to view the coin when you want to but at the same time preserve it so it retains the condition?

I am located in the US, though from the UK, so any purchases will be remote, so I will not have the opportunity to see a lot of examples in person. Can anyone suggest some good dealers who would be a good starting point for me.

I think this is a good start but I am sure other questions will come up as I learn more.

Many thanks,

David

Edited July 6, 2012 by irish79

[Rob 3,152]

Hello, I am new to coin collecting and looking for advice from experienced collectors as I start to enter the hobby. My interest is driven by my love of history and genealogy, the chance of owning a piece of history that would have been in the hands of our ancestors. My desire is to start to put together a type set, starting with Victoria' reign and then work backwards and forwards from there. I was thinking of starting with either the half penny or penny. I am a bit unsure about the term "luster", I gather this is the degree of original "red" colour left on the coin (copper/bronze), but not sure how to really understand the degree a coin is considered to have luster. I am interested in about UNC or UNC coins. I have found what seem to be some of the more common dates which have a slightly lower price point for these grades, I am not looking for rarer varieties

I am also interested in how fellow collectors typically like to store and display their coins. What methods are typically used to be able to view the coin when you want to but at the same time preserve it so it retains the condition?

I am located in the US, though from the UK, so any purchases will be remote, so I will not have the opportunity to see a lot of examples in person. Can anyone suggest some good dealers who would be a good starting point for me.

I think this is a good start but I am sure other questions will come up as I learn more.

Many thanks,

David

If you buy from the US you will find a lot of coins are slabbed - certainly the high grade ones. It depends on whether you want to keep them in plastic or in a mahogany cabinet for example. Traditionalists prefer a coin cabinet, but most people will not touch raw coins in the US for fear of being sold a dud. Consequently I suggest you don't buy any coins until you have acquired a few books and done a bit of background research. A general price guide will give you an idea of what is available and a ballpark figure for the various options. A trip to a coin fair to see the coins in the flesh is a must. Ebay is to be avoided until you know what you are doing as it is full of overpriced, overgraded and sometimes less than genuine crap. If you know anyone else who collects, have a long chat with them. Similarly at coin fairs, chat to the dealers. Don't feel compelled to take the cheapest of what are ostensibly identical coins. Most coins are priced low for a reason. Lustre is something you recognise when you see it. It is not a flat colour, even if the copper/bronze has bright surfaces. Lustre can be false.

There are a few dealers on this forum. Mongo asked the same question last week, so see that thread for a list.

Try searching the forum for the various points you want answers to, as all have been discussed several times in the past. Slabs vs cabinets is a perennial topic.

[Peter 615]

Keep an eye on the forum.There are no stupid questions and you won't get slated.

There is no easy answer to storage.I have the lot from 2x2 flips,albums,aluminium cases,Linder trays,Coin cabinets and a recent addition of a safe.(Drilled into 300mm concrete with resin anchors...it ain't going anywhere).

As a newbie just buy a few publications and pick our brains...advice is free. I'm also a member at coin talk,coin community,coinpeople

but the knowledge is here with many authors and dealers.

[Coinery 1,153]

You queried pennies or half pennies? I'd say halfpennies, quite simply because they are not as popular (for some strange reason) as pennies or farthings (YET), meaning you can pick-up the grades you are referring to quite cheaply! Essentially, learn and make your mistakes on half pennies, make all your lustre and grading mistakes on Victorian half pennies, it will not hurt half as much as it may if you leap straight onto the pennies bandwagon! You may actually get to love halpennies, it's a great mystery to me why they are currently so underrated? Take advantage!

Welcome aboard, you have made the single most intelligent step towards understanding coins by posting here!

[Guest irish79]

Thank you for your advice. I do like the half penny, not sure why . I have been searching and reading on the forum tonight and looking at a few sites of a dealers who are on this forum to see what the coins look like when described as EF, UNC, with Luster, etc. One thing I am curious about is how much the luster impacts the price and desirability of the coin? If there are 2 coins (either a half penny or penny) in the same grade, say UNC, and one has luster (having a reddish colour) and the other has overall brown toning, is the one with luster much more desirable and priced accordingly and does that make the toned (brown) version undesirable? At the end of the day I want to buy coins that appeal to me visually but even though I am not buying as an investment, I want to buy coins that if I need to I can resell. Thoughts? I could not find any threads touching on this though I am sure there are already - just did not come up in my searches.

David

[argentumandcoins 70]

Thank you for your advice. I do like the half penny, not sure why . I have been searching and reading on the forum tonight and looking at a few sites of a dealers who are on this forum to see what the coins look like when described as EF, UNC, with Luster, etc. One thing I am curious about is how much the luster impacts the price and desirability of the coin? If there are 2 coins (either a half penny or penny) in the same grade, say UNC, and one has luster (having a reddish colour) and the other has overall brown toning, is the one with luster much more desirable and priced accordingly and does that make the toned (brown) version undesirable? At the end of the day I want to buy coins that appeal to me visually but even though I am not buying as an investment, I want to buy coins that if I need to I can resell. Thoughts? I could not find any threads touching on this though I am sure there are already - just did not come up in my searches.

David

You have just given yourself the best bit of advice that you could have learnt from us.

If you like the coin the chances are that somebody else will if you come to sell on.

[Accumulator 52]

Thank you for your advice. I do like the half penny, not sure why . I have been searching and reading on the forum tonight and looking at a few sites of a dealers who are on this forum to see what the coins look like when described as EF, UNC, with Luster, etc. One thing I am curious about is how much the luster impacts the price and desirability of the coin? If there are 2 coins (either a half penny or penny) in the same grade, say UNC, and one has luster (having a reddish colour) and the other has overall brown toning, is the one with luster much more desirable and priced accordingly and does that make the toned (brown) version undesirable? At the end of the day I want to buy coins that appeal to me visually but even though I am not buying as an investment, I want to buy coins that if I need to I can resell. Thoughts? I could not find any threads touching on this though I am sure there are already - just did not come up in my searches.

David

Welcome to the hobby. There's lots of sound advice posted here. Rob's right about the books but most collectors naturally want to get their hands on some real coins. Pennies are possibly the singularly most collected denomination, so prices reflect this with lustrous examples of the much-collected bun heads rarely less than £200 a coin. Halfpennies seem to run at about 60% of the penny prices for coins of a similar rarity. Lustre (or luster in the US) is generally collected by those who appreciate the eye appear of an 'as struck' coin. Lustre doesn't in itself affect grade but generally coins exhibiting significant lustre would expect to be EF or UNC grade examples. Spink specifies in it's Coins of England (worth getting a copy) that prices for UNC bronze coins are for those with full lustre, i.e. at the top end of desirability.

I have some coins in slabs, some in trays and some in the bank but have photographed all of them and posted on-line (see link below) so I can browse and enjoy my collection whenever and wherever I wish.

[Colin G. 147]

Hello and welcome!!

Some good advice given above, and I agree wholeheartedly about eye appeal, if the coin appeals to you, there are chances that "if and when" the time comes to sell it will do the same with others.

You can get examples of coins that are nearly fully lustredthat do not have an attractive look to them, and you can also get some toned coins that have stunning eye appeal

[Peckris 579]

Thank you for your advice. I do like the half penny, not sure why . I have been searching and reading on the forum tonight and looking at a few sites of a dealers who are on this forum to see what the coins look like when described as EF, UNC, with Luster, etc. One thing I am curious about is how much the luster impacts the price and desirability of the coin? If there are 2 coins (either a half penny or penny) in the same grade, say UNC, and one has luster (having a reddish colour) and the other has overall brown toning, is the one with luster much more desirable and priced accordingly and does that make the toned (brown) version undesirable? At the end of the day I want to buy coins that appeal to me visually but even though I am not buying as an investment, I want to buy coins that if I need to I can resell. Thoughts? I could not find any threads touching on this though I am sure there are already - just did not come up in my searches.

David

The lustre question is somewhat subjective. One orthodox school of thought says that the more lustre a copper or bornze coin has, the more desirable it is. Others (I'm one of them) disagree, preferring to judge a coin on visual appeal rather than a stated % of lustre. To give an example, I would much rather have a copper coin with no lustre but an overall attractive patina, than a coin with 50% lustre, especially if the lustre was patchy. Then there's the quality of strike (crispness of detail), and an early strike - e.g. crisp but without lustre - would probably attract a premium over an UNC coin where the die had had some wear but some lustre is present.

As you said yourself, what appeals to the eye is important, and it will be easy to sell later.

[TomGoodheart 401]

Welcome David! Lustre is more than the original colour of a coin, it's an effect you get with uncleaned coins and I think is rather like a shimmer. The problem is it's difficult to always tell from a photo becasue lustre is often best seen by moving the coin around and observing the play of the light on the surfaces. However here is a coin that looks to have full lustre that was sold by the auction house Baldwins a while back:

However it's important not to get carried away with lustre! This for example is a proof coin and while deep brown in colour is a splendid thing (and went for a splendid price!):

[TomGoodheart 401]

The problem is, the best way to learn is to see some actual coins. However a chap called Colin Cooke (now sadly passed away) was a notable collector of base metal coins, in particulat farthings. His successors still have unparallelled experience in this area and you might want to chech their stock for examples with and without lustre: Colin Cooke halfpennies Plus he sold the Basil Nicholson collection which is worth a look: http://www.colincooke.com/coinpages/nicholsoncollection.html

Just remember that the original 'red' colour of a coin will also shine through after it has been cleaned:

Such a coin is not desirable and will never regain it's original lustre. However shiny it may be, it's ruined. A nicely tones coin will always be preferable to a cleaned one. Particularly in good grade:

So don't dismiss 'brown' coins out of hand!

[Peckris 579]

The problem is, the best way to learn is to see some actual coins. However a chap called Colin Cooke (now sadly passed away) was a notable collector of base metal coins, in particulat farthings. His successors still have unparallelled experience in this area and you might want to chech their stock for examples with and without lustre: Colin Cooke halfpennies Plus he sold the Basil Nicholson collection which is worth a look: http://www.colincooke.com/coinpages/nicholsoncollection.html

Just remember that the original 'red' colour of a coin will also shine through after it has been cleaned:

Such a coin is not desirable and will never regain it's original lustre. However shiny it may be, it's ruined. A nicely tones coin will always be preferable to a cleaned one. Particularly in good grade:

So don't dismiss 'brown' coins out of hand!

At the same time, don't confuse the natural 'red' of copper and bronze (see cleaned George VI coin above), with what the Americans call "red" which is the lustre a new coin has which gradually wears away in circulation, or even fades away in the case of some UNC coins that haven't been stored carefully enough.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Peckris

[TomGoodheart 401]

As for storage, if I was collecting copper then I'd be a lot more careful than I am with my current coins (stored in trays in a traditional cabinet) which have been handled for the last few hundred years and aren't going to be much affected by a bit more!

You don't want finger prints on your nice coins, so a pair of gloves (available from Chris P, owner of predecimal) or some coin slips might be sensible. Acid free paper envelopes are good, but you cant see the coin! For that you need holders/flips. The cheapest are a piece of card with two windows. Pop your coin in, fold the flip over and your coin is safely sandwiched between but can be admired through the windows.

They come in different window sizes to suit the coin and you can also get storage trays or books to hold them.

Of course there are also capsules (little round boxes) and so on, depending on choice.

[Debbie 58]

Hi David, welcome to the forum. Whilst I am by no means an "experienced" collector, I can second that you have definately come to the right place for expert and friendly information.

Just one observation, you say you wanted the chance to own something that has been in "the hands of our ancestors" - I'm not sure how literal you were wanting to take that, but for me personally a coin that has eye appeal and shows some signs of being in circulation (ie had more chance of actually being in our ancestors' pockets) would be far more appealing than a run of UNC ooins. Just a thought.

[Mongo 1]

Hi David!

I am a newbie too. I have asked loads of questions on this forum in the short time I have been here, and have always had polite and helpful advice, even if the questions are VERY basic.

Here are some links to some threads I started, where I had lots of helpful and useful advice, you may want to check them out:

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6797

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6815

Here are details from some of the forum members who sell coins:

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6879

I also received the Grading British Coins Guide today, and it looks like a very good book! You can find it here on amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Standard-Guide-Grading-British-Coins/dp/0948964839

I have only been collecting a short time, but I find the self adhesive 2 x 2 flips are a nice way to store your coins, as they protect them, but still allow you to see them clearly. TomGoodheart posted details about these earlier in the thread.

[InforaPenny 21]

I'd strongly suggest buying a few lower cost, mainly circulated coins FIRST as part the process of learning about them. I would certainly avoid slabbed coins or expensive “investment†grade coins starting out. In your case, you might want to buy some low cost examples of Victorian halfpennies, pennies, perhaps farthings and a few silver coins. Hold them in your hand, and find out whether they help you “feel†history. These are the coins your ancestors would have used everyday. Obtain some kind of catalogue to help you identify the different types and learn more about these coins (even an older used one). Perhaps you’ll find a particular denomination or type especially appeals to you (in my case it was pre-decimal bronze pennies), or it may be that you like collecting a wide range of examples of different types (penny, 3d, 6d, shilling, etc.). The main thing is to discover what YOU like best.

It’s even OK if you later find that collecting something other than coins is more appealing to you (stamps, books, antiques, etc.). Just don’t spend a lot of money “up front†before you find that out.

Best Regards and Good Luck,

InforaPenny

[Peckris 579]

I'd strongly suggest buying a few lower cost, mainly circulated coins FIRST as part the process of learning about them. I would certainly avoid slabbed coins or expensive “investment†grade coins starting out. In your case, you might want to buy some low cost examples of Victorian halfpennies, pennies, perhaps farthings and a few silver coins. Hold them in your hand, and find out whether they help you “feel†history. These are the coins your ancestors would have used everyday. Obtain some kind of catalogue to help you identify the different types and learn more about these coins (even an older used one). Perhaps you’ll find a particular denomination or type especially appeals to you (in my case it was pre-decimal bronze pennies), or it may be that you like collecting a wide range of examples of different types (penny, 3d, 6d, shilling, etc.). The main thing is to discover what YOU like best.

It’s even OK if you later find that collecting something other than coins is more appealing to you (stamps, books, antiques, etc.). Just don’t spend a lot of money “up front†before you find that out.

Best Regards and Good Luck,

InforaPenny

To forestall bad habits, either wear cotton gloves or hold by the rim only!!

[InforaPenny 21]

[Peckris 579]

To forestall bad habits, either wear cotton gloves or hold by the rim only!!

Respectfully, I disagree. Circulated coins circulated, and have already passed through many hands including perhaps those of your ancestors. A little additional handling (with so care) won’t hurt them, and will provide you with a real “feel†for them. Certainly once you’ve settled on which coins you want to collect seriously, you’ll want to be careful with any high-grade specimens you acquire later. However, I think it’s a good idea to retain examples of circulated coins showing various stages of wear, since knowledge of how different coinage designs wore while circulating is also important in understanding them in depth.

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

Your point is valid in relation to well-circulated, low-value coins. My point was that it is never too early to get into good habits. Get a fingerprint on a BU 1919KN penny and you wipe three figures off its value.

[Coinery 1,153]

To forestall bad habits, either wear cotton gloves or hold by the rim only!!

........... Had a big open and closed tag issue, you'll have to work out who's who from the earlier thread, huff!

Certainly once you’ve settled on which coins you want to collect seriously, you’ll want to be careful with any high-grade specimens you acquire later.

Ahhh, yes, but the rubbish coins of yester-year are now the treasured coins of today! I wouldn't necessarily say white-glove everything, I don't personally have any, but the philosophy is sound I think.

As a good and decent hippy of this land, I'd say it's no bad thing to live respectfully in all fields of life!

Edited July 9, 2012 by Coinery

[Guest irish79]

Great advice from everyone, thank you. I have the "Grading British Coins" book in the mail, should have that later this week. I do have a small bag of circulated coins ranging from 1890's through 1960's, both copper and silver which I got form my parents and grandparents many years ago - which I have been going through again recently and getting a feel for what each coin feels like. My favorite though is a 1897 florin which is in maybe fair condition which I dug up in my garden in Darlington when I was a teen. Not worth anything other than maybe scrap silver but not everyday you dig up a 100 year old coin. I have been looking more and more at different coins online on some of the dealers sites and more and more am siding with the silver coins, though in the end I would like to have an example across the spectrum. I really like the designs on the half crown, crown, and florins.

David

[Red Riley 2]

Great advice from everyone, thank you. I have the "Grading British Coins" book in the mail, should have that later this week. I do have a small bag of circulated coins ranging from 1890's through 1960's, both copper and silver which I got form my parents and grandparents many years ago - which I have been going through again recently and getting a feel for what each coin feels like. My favorite though is a 1897 florin which is in maybe fair condition which I dug up in my garden in Darlington when I was a teen. Not worth anything other than maybe scrap silver but not everyday you dig up a 100 year old coin. I have been looking more and more at different coins online on some of the dealers sites and more and more am siding with the silver coins, though in the end I would like to have an example across the spectrum. I really like the designs on the half crown, crown, and florins.

David

Hi David,

Welcome to the forum. I don't know whether anybody has mentioned this to you yet (I know it's one of John's favourite sayings) but buy the coin not its grade. When I was collecting I would try to get the best coins I could afford but always found that when upgrading there were lower grade coins I just couldn't part with. Whether it was that I liked the patina or something about the process of acquiring them, I know not but for example in a run of George V pennies mostly with high percentages of lustre, I had a VF 1922. Not particularly difficult or expensive to find in better grade but I just liked my old '22 and didn't see the need to upgrade it. I guess in a way this kind of personalises a collection and to my mind makes it a little more interesting. So by all means start out with the intention of collecting runs of coins in very high grade but don't be surprised if what you end up with is just that little bit different.

[InforaPenny 21]

Great advice from everyone, thank you. I have the "Grading British Coins" book in the mail, should have that later this week. I do have a small bag of circulated coins ranging from 1890's through 1960's, both copper and silver which I got form my parents and grandparents many years ago - which I have been going through again recently and getting a feel for what each coin feels like. My favorite though is a 1897 florin which is in maybe fair condition which I dug up in my garden in Darlington when I was a teen. Not worth anything other than maybe scrap silver but not everyday you dig up a 100 year old coin. I have been looking more and more at different coins online on some of the dealers sites and more and more am siding with the silver coins, though in the end I would like to have an example across the spectrum. I really like the designs on the half crown, crown, and florins.

David

Hi David,

Welcome to the forum. I don't know whether anybody has mentioned this to you yet (I know it's one of John's favourite sayings) but buy the coin not its grade. When I was collecting I would try to get the best coins I could afford but always found that when upgrading there were lower grade coins I just couldn't part with. Whether it was that I liked the patina or something about the process of acquiring them, I know not but for example in a run of George V pennies mostly with high percentages of lustre, I had a VF 1922. Not particularly difficult or expensive to find in better grade but I just liked my old '22 and didn't see the need to upgrade it. I guess in a way this kind of personalises a collection and to my mind makes it a little more interesting. So by all means start out with the intention of collecting runs of coins in very high grade but don't be surprised if what you end up with is just that little bit different.

I agree. Eye appeal and finding coins that just "look right" to you are the ones to collect. Don't let someone else dictate your choices.

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

[Accumulator 52]

Great advice from everyone, thank you. I have the "Grading British Coins" book in the mail, should have that later this week. I do have a small bag of circulated coins ranging from 1890's through 1960's, both copper and silver which I got form my parents and grandparents many years ago - which I have been going through again recently and getting a feel for what each coin feels like. My favorite though is a 1897 florin which is in maybe fair condition which I dug up in my garden in Darlington when I was a teen. Not worth anything other than maybe scrap silver but not everyday you dig up a 100 year old coin. I have been looking more and more at different coins online on some of the dealers sites and more and more am siding with the silver coins, though in the end I would like to have an example across the spectrum. I really like the designs on the half crown, crown, and florins.

David

Hi David,

Welcome to the forum. I don't know whether anybody has mentioned this to you yet (I know it's one of John's favourite sayings) but buy the coin not its grade. When I was collecting I would try to get the best coins I could afford but always found that when upgrading there were lower grade coins I just couldn't part with. Whether it was that I liked the patina or something about the process of acquiring them, I know not but for example in a run of George V pennies mostly with high percentages of lustre, I had a VF 1922. Not particularly difficult or expensive to find in better grade but I just liked my old '22 and didn't see the need to upgrade it. I guess in a way this kind of personalises a collection and to my mind makes it a little more interesting. So by all means start out with the intention of collecting runs of coins in very high grade but don't be surprised if what you end up with is just that little bit different.

I agree. Eye appeal and finding coins that just "look right" to you are the ones to collect. Don't let someone else dictate your choices.

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

I notice you've been 'lurking' for a while, though have been a member for a few years. Your name and list of interests suggest you are a collector of bronze pennies like myself and a few others here. I for one would be very interested to see pics of a few of your more interesting coins if you don't mind sharing them? Feel free to start a new thread if you wish.

[Peckris 579]

Great advice from everyone, thank you. I have the "Grading British Coins" book in the mail, should have that later this week. I do have a small bag of circulated coins ranging from 1890's through 1960's, both copper and silver which I got form my parents and grandparents many years ago - which I have been going through again recently and getting a feel for what each coin feels like. My favorite though is a 1897 florin which is in maybe fair condition which I dug up in my garden in Darlington when I was a teen. Not worth anything other than maybe scrap silver but not everyday you dig up a 100 year old coin. I have been looking more and more at different coins online on some of the dealers sites and more and more am siding with the silver coins, though in the end I would like to have an example across the spectrum. I really like the designs on the half crown, crown, and florins.

David

Hi David,

Welcome to the forum. I don't know whether anybody has mentioned this to you yet (I know it's one of John's favourite sayings) but buy the coin not its grade. When I was collecting I would try to get the best coins I could afford but always found that when upgrading there were lower grade coins I just couldn't part with. Whether it was that I liked the patina or something about the process of acquiring them, I know not but for example in a run of George V pennies mostly with high percentages of lustre, I had a VF 1922. Not particularly difficult or expensive to find in better grade but I just liked my old '22 and didn't see the need to upgrade it. I guess in a way this kind of personalises a collection and to my mind makes it a little more interesting. So by all means start out with the intention of collecting runs of coins in very high grade but don't be surprised if what you end up with is just that little bit different.

I agree. Eye appeal and finding coins that just "look right" to you are the ones to collect. Don't let someone else dictate your choices.

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

I notice you've been 'lurking' for a while, though have been a member for a few years. Your name and list of interests suggest you are a collector of bronze pennies like myself and a few others here. I for one would be very interested to see pics of a few of your more interesting coins if you don't mind sharing them? Feel free to start a new thread if you wish.

How on earth would you know that?