Help & Thoughts 'Elizabeth I BCW Die-Study'!

[seuk 85]

I'm not sure I follow it all. But I can think of no problem in refering to other numbering systems.

I feel that the study of the material will reveal if a new system is needed or not. The problem is that if one is going to arrange several hundreds of dies one need some kind of system to start with. And that system will most likely turn out to be incomplete as you work your way through the material.

When I made my present numbering system for the George III shilling counterfeits I had to renumber all my coins to fit the new system - and I can only hope it prove sufficient for future finds. Not much fun spending your days renaming thousands of scans etc. before you can continue working on the coins again

[Peter 615]

I just love rearranging my farthing trays every time I get a new variety.But hey it keeps me focussed/off the wine and fewer cuban cigars....well almost.We have no wine/beer/cigars in the house after "an eventful" gathering for my 17 year old daughters birthday.The lads were great again smoking cubans rather than rollies...the girls threw up everywhere and there were tears non stop.Cost me £150 in cigars.

Oh bring back the days of 10 pin bowling a burger and goodie bag at the end of it.

[Peckris 579]

I just love rearranging my farthing trays every time I get a new variety.But hey it keeps me focussed/off the wine and fewer cuban cigars....well almost.We have no wine/beer/cigars in the house after "an eventful" gathering for my 17 year old daughters birthday.The lads were great again smoking cubans rather than rollies...the girls threw up everywhere and there were tears non stop.Cost me £150 in cigars.

Oh bring back the days of 10 pin bowling a burger and goodie bag at the end of it...

...and a taxi ride home, and still change from sixpence

[Rob 3,152]

Here's an interesting obverse die. Never going to win a beauty contest, but the obverse mark is tun over hand over crescent and the reverse is dated 1592. This die must therefore have been in intermittent use for at least 3 years.

[Peter 615]

Rob

You have some superb coins and your research is second to none....where is the cut of point?Mrs peter needs a bit of work on the hamstring(too much of the suffolk purple vein )I love the info and resource.Chris has the handles Let us produce more publications.

There is too much knowledge and expertise on this forum(I have been banned from SurrEY COINS....so something is good) tossers.

[azda 979]

Rob

You have some superb coins and your research is second to none....where is the cut of point?Mrs peter needs a bit of work on the hamstring(too much of the suffolk purple vein )I love the info and resource.Chris has the handles Let us produce more publications.

There is too much knowledge and expertise on this forum(I have been banned from SurrEY COINS....so something is good) tossers.

You tried a bid?

[Rob 3,152]

Rob

You have some superb coins and your research is second to none....where is the cut of point?

There isn't one. I'm afraid it's a Captain Oates moment. I've just embarked on cataloguing the imaged hammered gold and Saxon/Norman pennies in the library. I am going to restrict it though, to VF or better unless it is rare for the mint/type etc.

On the subject of the above coin, I had listed it on the site, but nobody bought it because it was too messy and not particularly attractive despite the nice tone. That's why I made the effort to decipher the mess. Initially I had thought it was just a tun over hand, but to the left of the finger tips is the left horn of a crescent. First one I've seen, but it meant another line in the collection criteria database.

[Peter 615]

Everyone loves gold.A Saxon or Viking gold coin would be most welcome.I do love my farthings but have a bit of a roving eye.I buy anything that looks interesting and research from there.

[Coinery 1,148]

Here's an interesting obverse die. Never going to win a beauty contest, but the obverse mark is tun over hand over crescent and the reverse is dated 1592. This die must therefore have been in intermittent use for at least 3 years.

Well, it wouldn't be decent other than to stir-up a bit of a debate, particularly as this blows quite a few of the numismatic 'knowns' out of the water!

I can only quote from BCW, knowing of no better reference so, as a basis for discussion, we have:

Obverse TN-1 (Tun over Hand) which is obviously a known pairing with a 1592 reverse.

Also we have: Obverse HA-1, and this gives us our earliest known hand over crescent die. However, the earliest known pairing for HA-1 is with a 1590 reverse.

So, numismatically, absolutely nothing works for a triple-mark, but it's an interesting IM window for such possibilities, given the lack of pyx details spanning the 3 privy marks. I wonder if you have some interesting Challis info. to add fire?

Whilst I cannot personally pick out the 3 marks in the image, I'd be really interested to hear your ideas behind its occurrence.

The crescent sixpence (whilst not the commonest) has sufficient enough numbers surviving that it may be possible to find a die-match. This is what the entire Elizabeth die project is about for me...having a series of library dies available to all for clarification, where details or multiple marks aren't as clear as we would like.

It really interests me! I'll have a little dig around the die-thing on this one, because I truly believe that die-databases are the way forward in all areas...not to dig out new varieties, but quite simply to assist in situations such as these.

[Coinery 1,148]

Also we have: Obverse HA-1, and this gives us our earliest known hand over crescent die. However, the earliest known pairing for HA-1 is with a 1590 reverse.

The above was meant to read: 'However, the LATEST known pairing...'

The edit facility was unavailable this morning!

Edited October 19, 2012 by Coinery

[Rob 3,152]

Here is where the crescent and fingertips show.

The tun is sat on top of the mess which is presumably due to too much reworking of this area. A die link to a crescent marked obverse would be good, but you can never exclude a partially, but seriously recut die such as is found in the case of the Charles I Worcester shilling obverses C & D, and also the Rose and Lis marked Worcester groat obverse.

[Coinery 1,148]

I've just received the best news this evening from Chris Comber of BCW fame! I have the kind permission of the three gentlemen to 'use and quote BCW in my [your] published resource.' How fantastic an endorsement is that? I'm totally made up about it!

They have also recently submitted updates to Galata in preparation for the 2nd edition of their book, and continue to seek out new discoveries and welcome any new findings.

So, one small step for...

[Peterkin 0]

I've just received the best news this evening from Chris Comber of BCW fame! I have the kind permission of the three gentlemen to 'use and quote BCW in my [your] published resource.' How fantastic an endorsement is that? I'm totally made up about it!

They have also recently submitted updates to Galata in preparation for the 2nd edition of their book, and continue to seek out new discoveries and welcome any new findings.

So, one small step for...

Congratulations on getting the permission and all the best of success in following through on your project.

[Coinery 1,148]

Thanks for that, peterkin! I'm so pleased to have traversed the greatest obstacle re the whole project, namely, contact with the men themselves! A direct line to BCW is a huge privilege!