CROWNS

[Accumulator 52]

I'll try it after you…

[VickySilver 830]

I was going to say that maybe a bit of trial on some unimportant specimens might be worthwhile...

[davidrj 194]

Doing my nrs and just bought some.I will try it on the French coins 1st

What have the French done to upset you?

[Rob 3,152]

Doing my nrs and just bought some.I will try it on the French coins 1st

What have the French done to upset you?

Blockaded Calais once too often?

The shops closed 5 minutes early in Grenoble today --------- BLOCKADE CALAIS!!

A dog had a wee on a Parisian pavement -------- BLOCKADE CALAIS!!

An Englishman spoke to me -------- zut alors, BLOCKADE CALAIS!!

It's a bit like a case of Pavlov's frogs.

Apologies if we have any French members who might take offence.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Rob

[Garrett 76]

I'll try it after you…

Yes let us know if it works !!

I know where there is a lovely George II copper I could buy which has a bit of the green stuff on it.

[Garrett 76]

Oops sorry might be getting off topic here. I have nothing intelligent to say about crowns.

PS - I can't edit my posts ! When do I get to be 'one of the boys' ha ha haha

[Peckris 579]

Oops sorry might be getting off topic here. I have nothing intelligent to say about crowns.

PS - I can't edit my posts ! When do I get to be 'one of the boys' ha ha haha

You are, right from the start! We all are time-limited in being able to edit posts : it's around half an hour, give or take 15 minutes - after that, what you post is there in perpetuity: typos, sleaze, embarrassing revelations, traded insults, and all...

[Garrett 76]

Thanks !

[divemaster 11]

Is there anyone out there that knows the mintage figure for the 1960 trade fair "mule" crown? Just wondered because I never seem to see them on sale lists!

[Gary1000 41]

Is there anyone out there that knows the mintage figure for the 1960 trade fair "mule" crown? Just wondered because I never seem to see them on sale lists!

I've not heard of that one, why is it a mule?

[Peckris 579]

Is there anyone out there that knows the mintage figure for the 1960 trade fair "mule" crown? Just wondered because I never seem to see them on sale lists!

I've not heard of that one, why is it a mule?

Nor me - I have the 'polished die' variety from the World Trade Fair, but I'd not heard of any other varieties.

[divemaster 11]

Yes, sorry, I missed out the word "World" on my description. Mule comes from descriptions I have heard used by others (CGS) and I believe it is the "polished die" as you say.

Why are they not listed for sale very often? are they rare?

Thanks

[Rob 3,152]

Mule has a defined definition i.e the pairing of dies that were not intended to be paired. Usually an obsolete design that has been surperseded such as the 1983 2p with the old NEW PENCE legend whereas it should have had the new TWO PENCE reverse design. CGS might have used mule as a description, but definitely not in the context of a polished die for a 1960 crown.

They aren't as common as the regular pieces, but certainly not rare.

[DaveG38 405]

Yes, sorry, I missed out the word "World" on my description. Mule comes from descriptions I have heard used by others (CGS) and I believe it is the "polished die" as you say.

Why are they not listed for sale very often? are they rare?

Thanks

I belive the mintage was around 70,000, so not rare.

[divemaster 11]

Thanks for the info.

70k, must be one some where, just have to keep looking

[divemaster 11]

Just looked at CGS definition on their use of the term "Mule" for the 1960 "polished dies" New York Trade Fair crown and it describes it as,

Obverse from standard dies.

Reverse from polished dies.

Would that combination equal a "Mule" ??

[Peckris 579]

Just looked at CGS definition on their use of the term "Mule" for the 1960 "polished dies" New York Trade Fair crown and it describes it as,

Obverse from standard dies.

Reverse from polished dies.

Would that combination equal a "Mule" ??

I would personally say "no". Finish is a nebulous kind of thing to make a determinant. After all, would you describe as a 'mule' a coin that had full lustre on one side, but none on the other, even if you COULD prove that's how it left the Mint?

I think 'specimen', 'proof', 'polished die', 'proof-like', 'early strike', are far too vague terms for something as specific as a mule. Put it this way, have you ever seen a coin that's a proof on one side but not the other?

[Rob 3,152]

Think along the lines of the undated 20p. Old obverse paired with the new reverse - never should have happened, i.e. it's a mule. By comparison, the multitude of die pairings in the early Victorian bronze pennies et infra were in a period of experimentation with no settled die pairings in the early stages, i.e. not mules. Similarly with the many pointings to either a tooth or a gap.

[Gary1000 41]

If a coin has been minted with a polish die one side and a currecy die the other surely it's a mull as it would be an unintentional die pairing.

[Peter 615]

I agree Gary.

Unintentional die pairing.

[Peckris 579]

If a coin has been minted with a polish die one side and a currecy die the other surely it's a mull as it would be an unintentional die pairing.

Because if all that's different is the 'finish' (which could be completely undetectable by the time the coin's EF) then it's not really a die pairing - all details are exactly the same, i.e. design. In any case, how do you know it's the die not the blank that's been polished? E.g. 1961 halfcrowns. And if the coin has not been stored properly, the 'polish' could have disappeared, or conversely the owner could have imparted a light polish to the unpolished side.

It will probably all boil down to a matter of opinion, but I'm with Rob, it's not a mule by any traditional meaning of the word.

[Peter 615]

There is a clear difference between the polished and "normal" finish.

It is a mule as there was an unintentional mix up of dies.

Rather than prolong an argument.I'm putting my head in the sand and this is the last I shall comment on the subject.

[Rob 3,152]

That probably needs to be qualified. Those polished dies for the New York Exhibition were always going to be returned to the Mint afterwards, so if they needed another die at a later stage it is reasonable to assume they would use an existing one rather than start from scratch. There is no design difference, so no unintentional pairing from that perpective. I would even question whether the use of a currency/proof die pairing in say the Jubilee Head coinage was unintentional. Again, the design is current in both instances.

In the case of the two most recent examples, both the 20p and 2p mules used an obsolete design.

[divemaster 11]

LCA have a proof, plain edge, 1821 copper crown coming up in there auction, never seen a copper crown before! has anyone else????

Verdict please on its place in a silver crown collection?

[Coinery 1,147]

Verdict please on its place in a silver crown collection?

A must-have if it's within budget I'd say!

Good luck, would love to see your images if you go for it!