CROWNS

[Peckris 579]

LCA have a proof, plain edge, 1821 copper crown coming up in there auction, never seen a copper crown before! has anyone else????

Verdict please on its place in a silver crown collection?

No more out of place than a silver proof Cartwheel twopence in a copper collection, I'd say.

[VickySilver 830]

Oh, have a go. I had just started a half sov collection some years ago when a pattern 1839 in silver showed up & got it for not a lot - nary a specimen has shown in the years since and beautiful to boot (OK, as you might guess I also like Victorian silver! LOL).

I have noticed that on occasion, demand is not always as high as you might expect and the price not as dear as one might predict. If you lose out, well, it is a bronze bit anyway. Right?

Edited December 6, 2014 by VickySilver

[Danz 9]

I have just got a crown with frosted finish on the obv but standard BU finish on the rev. It stands out from the other ones in the set.

[divemaster 11]

Hi Danz, what date is your crown that you describe?

[Danz 9]

The newest you can get. 2015 waterloo one. it's my xmas pressie from the wife.

[Nick 329]

The newest you can get. 2015 waterloo one. it's my xmas pressie from the wife.

My 2015 Churchill £5 is similar, frosted reverse and BU obverse. I have to say that Waterloo commemorative design has to be the worst the Royal Mint has ever released. I really don't like it at all. Your picture makes it look much nicer than it is.

[Danz 9]

Any pics?

[VickySilver 830]

Hmmm, definately has a Pobjoy Mint look about it and IMO I prefer the Churchill depicted on the infamous 1965 crown!

[Peckris 579]

Hmmm, definately has a Pobjoy Mint look about it and IMO I prefer the Churchill depicted on the infamous 1965 crown!

Agreed. This Churchill looks more like a certain dog .... "Oh, No".

[Paulus 1,975]

I have lost all interest in these most recent modern decimal commems, to me they have no numismatic interest whatsoever, with very few exceptions

[divemaster 11]

Always shocks me, that so many varieties of even a relatively common coin such as the 1951 crown exist!

Think now I have all varieties (5) now but I wonder.

[VickySilver 830]

Oh, go ahead and post them with ID markings etc for a reference...

[Gary1000 41]

Always shocks me, that so many varieties of even a relatively common coin such as the 1951 crown exist!

Think now I have all varieties (5) now but I wonder.

I have 6. The proof like with the edge lettering either way up. The proof from the proof set with the edge lettering either way up. The VIP proof and an edge error.

[VickySilver 830]

Wow, as much as I love 20th C. predecimal crowns, I just can't seem to be passionate enough to collect by edge lettering up or down. How about the matte piece? I guess for naughtiness, you could go for PL, DMPL, Cameo and Deep cameo on the Unc. and proof pieces as well!

[Coinery 1,147]

I always thought you to be passionate about EVERY little detail of the series you collected?

[VickySilver 830]

Well, that is true about what I collect personally but just saying edge orientation doesn't fall in that category. Started with 20th C. crowns (pre-decimal, of course!) and did well except for the E8 of course...

[divemaster 11]

Up to eight varieties known of the 1951 crown now! Jesus, how many dies did they make that year??

[Peter 615]

I must have 20 of these.

Another to do on my list.

[Rob 3,152]

What do Spink mean when they say 2 reverse varieties? You have the upright/inverted edge for normal and proofs, matt proof, VIP proof, error edges (2?), but I wasn't aware of 2 reverse types. Clues anyone?

[divemaster 11]

There are three "reverse" variants currently known, each variant referring to details of the tail and maine of the horse. If you go into the CGS website, and go to "population report" pick crowns, then go to the 1951 crowns, and each variant is listed in detail.

[Rob 3,152]

Ah, thanks. Not a member - never bothered slabbing anything.

[divemaster 11]

Does anyone know of the mintage figures for the 1951 plain edge crown? or was it just a one off mistake in production?

Same question for the 1951 mat proof crown, I have heard it was only a couple for photographic reasons, but cannot find any proof on this theory.

[VickySilver 830]

These are not recorded to my knowledge for either piece. The 1951 was stated in proof by ESC (I believe) and recently sold for - I think - 3600 quid!!!! I believe I have seen one other for sale and do not have one, sad to say.

 

The matte proofs are perhaps more common than has been stated in catalogues such as ESC, Coincraft, and the like where it is commonly stated to be 1-2. I have seen enough sales to feel confident in stating there are likely above 5 in PRIVATE hands alone, let alone fixed collections such as the BM, Ashmolean, etc. I would feel more comfortable minteage was listed as "est. 10"

[coinkat 21]

The proof Wreath Crowns are interesting- I often wonder how rare they are. And I suspect that will be debated for years. I suppose someone at the Royal Mint could have kept records... just a question of whether they still exist or could be located.

[VickySilver 830]

Ah, yes, tread lightly there grasshopper. There were very few overall Wreaths struck and PL specimens abound. Since many proofs of that era did not have cameo devices, they appear rather specimen-like. I have known this series for over 25 years and managed what I believe to be  a complete set in proof incl. the 1927 matte (but sadly not the 1926 pattern reverse!). I have seen a number that were slabbed as proof and in fact, were not. Also, grading on these seem to be all over the map even on those that likely are proof.

 

There are in  many sources quoted to be 5-10 made of the 1928-1934 and the 1936 & I think it may be double that. I had tried to arrange a rarity scale in terms of which were least to most common of the proofs at one time; here goes my current estimates:   1930, 1929, 1931, 1936, 1934, 1932, 1933, 1928. You'll notice that the two scarcest currency dates, 1934 and 1932 seem to be more common as proof. I think that is because a number are in fact not and are early die stage currency strikes.

 

BTW, George's cheek, brow ridge, and mustache corner are vulnerable to poor strike and frequent bag and handling marks as are the reverse flower stamens and the orb cross or inverted "T" - not the cross that surmounts it as much.