CROWNS

[divemaster 11]

Part of me wishes people would stop discovering these "variations" each one makes me realise i will never complete my crown collection!!!

[Rob 3,152]

Part of me wishes people would stop discovering these "variations" each one makes me realise i will never complete my crown collection!!!

Correct. The same thing happened for me with halfpennies and shillings when the ex-Murdoch and Roberts patterns came up at Plymouth in 2008. Another 19 varieties in gold for the two denominations was never going to be kind on the pocket, even at 2008 prices - but they have since doubled. As the prospective cost of completion had just increased by north of £250K as of the sale date and there wasn't a hope in hell of buying them all on the day, let alone in the after market, completion became an ever more distant prospect and so I decided to refocus and just keep the nicest pieces going forward.

[Coppers 58]

Part of me wishes people would stop discovering these "variations" each one makes me realise i will never complete my crown collection!!!

Are these edge variations really significant enough to warrant requiring an example of each to consider your collection complete? I honestly don't think so.

[Rob 3,152]

Part of me wishes people would stop discovering these "variations" each one makes me realise i will never complete my crown collection!!!

Are these edge variations really significant enough to warrant requiring an example of each to consider your collection complete? I honestly don't think so.

This is a much discussed point. Eventually you will arrive at an example of every die and combination produced. I suspect boredom will set in long before you achieve your aim.

[ski 1]

Part of me wishes people would stop discovering these "variations" each one makes me realise i will never complete my crown collection!!!

difficult to know where to draw the line...im happy with an example of regular varieties and dont bother with micro varieties.

Eventually you will arrive at an example of every die and combination produced. I suspect boredom will set in long before you achieve your aim.

and boy do i get bored of my friends vicky die number collection......

[Peckris 579]

Part of me wishes people would stop discovering these "variations" each one makes me realise i will never complete my crown collection!!!

Are these edge variations really significant enough to warrant requiring an example of each to consider your collection complete? I honestly don't think so.

This is a much discussed point. Eventually you will arrive at an example of every die and combination produced. I suspect boredom will set in long before you achieve your aim.

Well said. Some of the tiniest variations collected should be used as a test for Aspergers Syndrome

[divemaster 11]

Serious question now! Why were dollars produced as legal tender during the early 1800s?

[Gary1000 41]

Serious question now! Why were dollars produced as legal tender during the early 1800s?

I guess purely for trade purposes, the first step towards a world currency.

[Peckris 579]

Serious question now! Why were dollars produced as legal tender during the early 1800s?

Because the price of silver was so volatile. The value of a Bank Of England "dollar" could - and was - adjusted in face value according to the rise and fall in silver prices.

For the same reason, countermarked "pieces of 8" (Spanish) could have a face value set that was usually less than five shillings. If they had issued crowns, the value would have been fixed at 5/- and if the price of silver rose, they would have been melted down for their metal content.

[Rob 3,152]

There might have also been an argument for calling them dollars on account of the 8 reales and dollar being close in size and weight and the underlying coin was captured bullion of both types amongst others. There might also have been a case for not using English units in isolation on account of the silver purity which was lower than sterling. As the price of silver fluctuated, the 5 shillings/dollar was only a nominal value anyway.

[davidrj 194]

There might have also been an argument for calling them dollars on account of the 8 reales and dollar being close in size and weight and the underlying coin was captured bullion of both types amongst others. There might also have been a case for not using English units in isolation on account of the silver purity which was lower than sterling. As the price of silver fluctuated, the 5 shillings/dollar was only a nominal value anyway.

"Half a Dollar" was in common usage for the halfcrown in Liverpool when i was a lad - found it confusing because £1 was US $2.80 at the time

[Gary1000 41]

There might have also been an argument for calling them dollars on account of the 8 reales and dollar being close in size and weight and the underlying coin was captured bullion of both types amongst others. There might also have been a case for not using English units in isolation on account of the silver purity which was lower than sterling. As the price of silver fluctuated, the 5 shillings/dollar was only a nominal value anyway.

"Half a Dollar" was in common usage for the halfcrown in Liverpool when i was a lad - found it confusing because £1 was US $2.80 at the time

Likewise. That harks back to the good old days when there were $4 to the pound. Apparently the crown was also called an Oxford.

http://www.fun-with-words.com/money_words.html

[divemaster 11]

london coins have a 1951 crown (sandblasted dies) for sale rated R7. Has anyone ever seen one of these before? Would they really form dies for a so called strike of a few? What price do you think it will achieve? Anyone out there got one of these??

[Peckris 579]

london coins have a 1951 crown (sandblasted dies) for sale rated R7. Has anyone ever seen one of these before? Would they really form dies for a so called strike of a few? What price do you think it will achieve? Anyone out there got one of these??

I read somewhere (more than once) that these were created purely for photographic purposes, so there would never have been more than a handful.

[divemaster 11]

probably so they dont reflect when being photographed hmmmm. Whilst its rare its not a very pretty coin.

[VickySilver 830]

At 6500 quid plus the juice!

I do know these quite well, and they are quite rare, albeit more common than the R7 listed in ESC.

I would rate them about as follows (all outside museums)

1926 Pattern Peace Crown 3-4

1926 Pattern Wreath 2-3

1927 3-4 likely

1937 3-4 likely

1951 6-8

1953 6-8

1965 (satin) 8-10

Actually I rather like the 1927 and 1937 mattes and find them rather handsome!

[divemaster 11]

Went to LCA yesterday, saw a 1953 crown with the U missing from wording (unlisted) has anyone ever heard of these varieties before.

Others must have, it went for over £200 !

[Red Riley 2]

Certainly mentioned in Collector's Coins where Chris describes it as the 'hip hop error'!

Edited December 2, 2013 by Red Riley

[Peckris 579]

Yup - YO instead of YOU. That's pretty hip-hop

[Peter 615]

£200

Worth looking out for then.

[VickySilver 830]

Hmmm, I've got that one…Paid a premium - I think 90 quid about 5-6 yrs ago. There are MANY edge variants on at least the '53 crown. I have one with the ENTIRE edge lettering offset a second time. I was suspicious as it should be impossible (??) as it was my understanding that the collar was tripartite so that presumable only a third could have offset…Looks fairly good by memory and will see if I can locate this one.

[just.me 23]

On the subject of 1953 Crown varieties, I have a 1+A proof with inverted die axis (about 170 degrees) I assume this was an error and not intentional.

[pokal02 44]

I rather liked the 1651 'atheist' crown that reads 'GO WITH US' instead of GOD WITH US'. It came up in Spinks circular a couple of times in the early 2000s, haven't heard of it since. (1651 is, of course. a difficult date anyway without worrying about varieties).

[Peter 615]

Stage left....Micro variety collectors.

I will stick to my early milled cu where everything is different...even intensity of verdigris.

I know Bob has mentioned Verdi care but I have kept it in my watched list despite.

Quite good feed backs.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321162294963?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The jury is out.Anyone tried it?

Seems worth a gamble.

[Peter 615]

Doing my nrs and just bought some.I will try it on the French coins 1st

It must be worth a try.

I am an Ebay sucker.

I no nutting aboot cions.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Peter