Two Hammered Charles I Shillings

[HAXall 0]

Good evening to everybody!i have bought these two coins recently!i Will be grateful for any help to grade and valued it.

[HAXall 0]

[TomGoodheart 403]

Hi HAXall. Well .... I'm afraid they aren't in brilliant condition! The left hand one (Spink 2800, Sharp G2/2 with the Sun mint mark (Nov 1645 - Feb 1647)) has been badly treated! Possibly it's been driven over, or someone has bashed it about. Without the dents I would grade it Fine (quite a lot of wear, but with design and legends distinguishable).

The second (Spink 2799, Sharp G1/2) with the triangle in circle mark (Jul 1641 - May 1643) is about the same (Fine) though some details are clearer.

I'd say you paid an acceptable price for the second, the first has to be marked down because of the dents. £12-£15 is about normal for ebay, though of course sometimes people get lucky and they go for more. Interesting pieces of history, but perhaps worth paying a wee bit more for nicer examples if you're planning on collecting the series!

.

Edited October 3, 2012 by TomGoodheart

[HAXall 0]

Thank You very much for quick respond!is there any rare mint marks?

[TomGoodheart 403]

Thank You very much for quick respond!is there any rare mint marks?

The rarest is probably the Negro's Head which was only struck between November 1626 to April 1627 in small quantities. Next rarest is the Heart mark (Jun 1630- Jun 31). But because the coins were individually made a number of dies were re-used (or their use extended) by later adding a different mint mark, and some of these 'overmarks' are also rare.

And a few coins seem to have been made with the wrong, or an unusual, mark not normally found for that particular variety. For example this is not a terribly rare coin, issued during the Harp mark. But somehow two examples survive with the Portcullis mark; so a regular coin made very rare if you can find another with this mark!

And it's made even more complicated (or challenging, depending on your point of view) by the fact that there are some coins that are easy enough to find in poor to Fine condition, but to get a better than average example is both time consuming and probably expensive.

In other words it's not just the mint mark that determines scarcity, but condition and irregular features not normally found with that issue.

[Rob 3,152]

Thank You very much for quick respond!is there any rare mint marks?

The rarest is probably the Negro's Head which was only struck between November 1626 to April 1627 in small quantities. Next rarest is the Heart mark (Jun 1630- Jun 31). But because the coins were individually made a number of dies were re-used (or their use extended) by later adding a different mint mark, and some of these 'overmarks' are also rare.

And a few coins seem to have been made with the wrong, or an unusual, mark not normally found for that particular variety. For example this is not a terribly rare coin, issued during the Harp mark. But somehow two examples survive with the Portcullis mark; so a regular coin made very rare if you can find another with this mark!

And it's made even more complicated (or challenging, depending on your point of view) by the fact that there are some coins that are easy enough to find in poor to Fine condition, but to get a better than average example is both time consuming and probably expensive.

In other words it's not just the mint mark that determines scarcity, but condition and irregular features not normally found with that issue.

I was looking at one of the two portculis coins on Monday night. DH and me were both in agreement about the reverse which we think is over harp, but decided the jury is out on the obverse. I'm inclined to think it is also over harp (which would make sense) as there is a slightly inclined line from left to right starting at the top of the portcullis. There are also small lumps which could be the two ends of a harp or a double struck portcullis. The one thing that is missing is a trace of diagonal harp strings within the grid of the portcullis, which would of course confirm the undermark.

[TomGoodheart 403]

I was looking at one of the two portculis coins on Monday night. DH and me were both in agreement about the reverse which we think is over harp, but decided the jury is out on the obverse. I'm inclined to think it is also over harp (which would make sense) as there is a slightly inclined line from left to right starting at the top of the portcullis. There are also small lumps which could be the two ends of a harp or a double struck portcullis. The one thing that is missing is a trace of diagonal harp strings within the grid of the portcullis, which would of course confirm the undermark.

I felt that the marks on both sides were somewhat proud of the coin, suggesting an overmark. Together with the fact that I can imagine something under the mms of the other coin I tend to agree with you Rob. But as to why, that's a different question!

[Rob 3,152]

Speculation, but maybe a shortage of dies at a crucial time when a particular consignment of silver needed to be coined and no D4-6 die was available (or perhaps had even been made at that point). The overmark on the reverse should date the issue early in portcullis, so we are probably talking 2nd or 3rd week in July 1633 given the absolute rarity of the obverse die. I've not looked for other dies, but a thought just struck me that the portcullis mark was cut with particularly straight sided detail, so no indication of a worn punch. This might be useful for determining individual die chronology.