HENRY IV & V PENNY IMAGES WANTED

[Rob 3,152]

Something a bit more mundane for you chaps, if you can help. If anyone has examples of Henry IV & V pennies, I would appreciate any images available.

I picked up this better than average example of a York local dies Henry V (S1791)on the bay this weekend. A few questions occur to me. First, do all the examples of this type have an annulet in the reverse legend? Second, do any other non-local dies York pennies attributed to these reigns have an annulet in the reverse legend, irrespective of whether there is an annulet in the CIVI quarter between the pellets which is supposedly restricted to the type G? Third, the marks beside the crown are given as mullet to the left and lis to the right. I can see the lis is correct, but the mullet is a bit odd. Although double struck, there is no way I can reconstruct a normal 5 armed mullet. The best I can do is a cross with a central pellet, but not in a void. This may be an overstrike. Thoughts anyone. Thanks.

Obverse:

[Rob 3,152]

Double post

Edited October 23, 2012 by Rob

[Rob 3,152]

The reverse has a clear annulet after TAS, which being an episcopal mark makes me wonder whether the local dies coinage can be linked to the primacies of either Richard Scrope (1398-1405) or Henry Bowet (1407-1423), or the Sede Vacante period between the two.

Reverse:

[Colin G. 147]

It looks more like a trefoil to me....

[Rob 3,152]

It looks more like a trefoil to me....

That's what I thought at first, but the top left arm is a bit messy and so eventually decided it was probably a saltire. Definitely not a mullet though. That's why I could do with some more images to see if it clarifies the situation.

[scott 144]

my Henry IV, dunno what you can get from it, it is york also

Edited October 23, 2012 by scott

[Rob 3,152]

my Henry IV, dunno what you can get from it, it is york also

What was the rationale for attributing this to Henry IV as opposed to Henry V? I'm not saying it is wrong, just that it is difficult to make out the defining detail such as broken annulets etc which is the main method of classification and attribution. The quatrefoil in the centre of the reverse is common to both reigns.

[scott 144]

i didn't someone who knows about these sort of things did.

[Peckris 579]

i didn't someone who knows about these sort of things did.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Peckris

[scott 144]

they said it was based on the size of the neck, not 100% but they know hammered

[Coinery 1,153]

i didn't someone who knows about these sort of things did.

Peck my old friend, you are the devil's own!