1860 1d, N over Z

[RLC35 288]

For all who may not have seen a 1860 N over Z, here is one I received in today's mail. I couldn't get the Obverse in the email, due to size restrictions.

[1949threepence 3,367]

Superb, Bob. The Edinburgh collection consisted entirely of very high quality coins, and to get such a rarity in such high grade out of that, is fantastic.

Really impressed.

[scott 144]

ahh yes, still one i am looking for, HOWEVER that die crack looks like a distinguishing feature.

[Coinery 1,148]

ahh yes, still one i am looking for, HOWEVER that die crack looks like a distinguishing feature.

A Sherlock approach to spotting rarities, I like it!

[1949threepence 3,367]

ahh yes, still one i am looking for, HOWEVER that die crack looks like a distinguishing feature.

Die cracks are very common in the bun series, especially the early ones.

The O of ONE looks as though it has been re-done as well, from what I can see of it.

[Coinery 1,148]

For all who may not have seen a 1860 N over Z, here is one I received in today's mail. I couldn't get the Obverse in the email, due to size restrictions.

Sideways N though, isn't it? Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but I haven't got the books to hand! Really clear though, unlike so many of the 19C varieties!

[RLC35 288]

Coinery, you are right. it is a N over sideways N, not a N over Z, as stated. Although it is also referred to as a N over Z, by some. Most of the readers have noticed the retooled O, and the die crack on the reverse of the coin, but an addition feature of the coin (and all of this Variety) is the double struck A on the Obverse. I didn't make a pic of the Obverse "A", but it is visably double struck.

Does anyone have any information on the edinburgh sale? ie...date of the sale...who held the sale ,etc?

[scott 144]

as common as they may be, no 2 dies would crack exactly the same.

it is wheather the sideways N exists on all 1860 with that crack, it is tiny features like that that help find these varieties if you are not sure afterall.

[Peckris 579]

For all who may not have seen a 1860 N over Z, here is one I received in today's mail. I couldn't get the Obverse in the email, due to size restrictions.

Nice example. I was going to point out that it was surely a sideways N not a Z, but Coinery beat me to it. However, if you were to write a sideways N it would certainly look like a Z, and a lot less to write! So N over Z is good enough I guess

[Coinery 1,148]

ahh yes, still one i am looking for, HOWEVER that die crack looks like a distinguishing feature.

Die cracks are very common in the bun series, especially the early ones.

A pretty good tool for spotting rarities from poor eBay photos though, I'd think?

Get the year and one or two die cracks in the right place, and you could be home and dry?

Could be a new eBay help guide (c'mon Scott, it was your thinking!), take a year, and any known die cracks associated with the rare varieties or pairings, and draw the map! You might be able to pick out a die flaw ahead of the microscopic differences we sometimes see in these coins...especially given the appalling images we mostly see on eBay!

[Coinery 1,148]

For all who may not have seen a 1860 N over Z, here is one I received in today's mail. I couldn't get the Obverse in the email, due to size restrictions.

Nice example. I was going to point out that it was surely a sideways N not a Z, but Coinery beat me to it. However, if you were to write a sideways N it would certainly look like a Z, and a lot less to write! So N over Z is good enough I guess

I'm sure Dave's knocked a couple of sideways N's out on his aye-phone before? I know I have, but I'm buggered if I can find them! Maybe it WAS a Z?

[1949threepence 3,367]

Coinery, you are right. it is a N over sideways N, not a N over Z, as stated. Although it is also referred to as a N over Z, by some. Most of the readers have noticed the retooled O, and the die crack on the reverse of the coin, but an addition feature of the coin (and all of this Variety) is the double struck A on the Obverse. I didn't make a pic of the Obverse "A", but it is visably double struck.

Does anyone have any information on the edinburgh sale? ie...date of the sale...who held the sale ,etc?

They describe it as "N over Z (N over sideways N)"

Bob, the history of the Edinburgh collection was described in Colin Cooke's monthly magazine for October, which irritatingly, I seem to have lost. Unlike the other collections, there is no preface to the collection on their website. It appears that it was sold as a job lot to Colin Cooke, who then listed them all separately for sale.

Can't remember too much about the history given, except for the fact that the guy who collected them, aimed for the very highest quality. All are BU or nearly so. He didn't have all of the very rarest dates (no 1869 for example). But the ones that were there are absolutely superlative.

In terms of bun pennies, they are a class collection ~ although it isn't just bun pennies, of course. Far from it.

They can all be seen here

[Coinery 1,148]

Coinery, you are right. it is a N over sideways N, not a N over Z, as stated. Although it is also referred to as a N over Z, by some. Most of the readers have noticed the retooled O, and the die crack on the reverse of the coin, but an addition feature of the coin (and all of this Variety) is the double struck A on the Obverse. I didn't make a pic of the Obverse "A", but it is visably double struck.

Does anyone have any information on the edinburgh sale? ie...date of the sale...who held the sale ,etc?

They describe it as "N over Z (N over sideways N)"

Bob, the history of the Edinburgh collection was described in Colin Cooke's monthly magazine for October, which irritatingly, I seem to have lost. Unlike the other collections, there is no preface to the collection on their website. It appears that it was sold as a job lot to Colin Cooke, who then listed them all separately for sale.

Can't remember too much about the history given, except for the fact that the guy who collected them, aimed for the very highest quality. All are BU or nearly so. He didn't have all of the very rarest dates (no 1869 for example). But the ones that were there are absolutely superlative.

In terms of bun pennies, they are a class collection ~ although it isn't just bun pennies, of course. Far from it.

They can all be seen here

Makes you want to give up, looking at that lot!

[1949threepence 3,367]

Coinery, you are right. it is a N over sideways N, not a N over Z, as stated. Although it is also referred to as a N over Z, by some. Most of the readers have noticed the retooled O, and the die crack on the reverse of the coin, but an addition feature of the coin (and all of this Variety) is the double struck A on the Obverse. I didn't make a pic of the Obverse "A", but it is visably double struck.

Does anyone have any information on the edinburgh sale? ie...date of the sale...who held the sale ,etc?

They describe it as "N over Z (N over sideways N)"

Bob, the history of the Edinburgh collection was described in Colin Cooke's monthly magazine for October, which irritatingly, I seem to have lost. Unlike the other collections, there is no preface to the collection on their website. It appears that it was sold as a job lot to Colin Cooke, who then listed them all separately for sale.

Can't remember too much about the history given, except for the fact that the guy who collected them, aimed for the very highest quality. All are BU or nearly so. He didn't have all of the very rarest dates (no 1869 for example). But the ones that were there are absolutely superlative.

In terms of bun pennies, they are a class collection ~ although it isn't just bun pennies, of course. Far from it.

They can all be seen here

Makes you want to give up, looking at that lot!

Well.........unbelievable isn't it

The single minded determination of the individual who put that collection together, is little short of awesome. I wonder what prompted him to off load it

[RLC35 288]

Thanks 1949, I appreciate your input. I have asked Neil Paisley and Lee Brownson for some addition on the Edinburgh Sale. I am awaiting their reply. I am very pleased with the coin, and the way they handled the transaction.

[1949threepence 3,367]

Thanks 1949, I appreciate your input. I have asked Neil Paisley and Lee Brownson for some addition on the Edinburgh Sale. I am awaiting their reply. I am very pleased with the coin, and the way they handled the transaction.

No worries, Bob

I'd be very interested to see what they say about the Edinburgh collection if you find the time to post it on here.

Here's how Michael Gouby describes the N over N

[Coinery 1,148]

Thanks 1949, I appreciate your input. I have asked Neil Paisley and Lee Brownson for some addition on the Edinburgh Sale. I am awaiting their reply. I am very pleased with the coin, and the way they handled the transaction.

No worries, Bob

I'd be very interested to see what they say about the Edinburgh collection if you find the time to post it on here.

Here's how Michael Gouby describes the N over N

Michael, a Z sideways is an N! I think we all know what we mean though!

[davidrj 194]

ahh yes, still one i am looking for, HOWEVER that die crack looks like a distinguishing feature.

Every N over Z I have seen illustrated, including my own, has that die crack by the 1 of the date - certainly diagnostic! ......... unless anyone has one without?

David

[Accumulator 52]

Been so busy with work recently that I've barely had time read this forum. Anyway, Bob, that's a really beautiful example! I also picked up a couple of coins from the Edinburgh collection and am very pleased with the quality. I spoke with Neil at the time and understood that the term 'Edinburgh' was simply used to denote a Scottish collector who wished to remain anonymous. He was amassing a collection of the very best examples and wouldn't consider filling spaces with poorer coins, hence some glaring gaps. I got the impression that he had either lost interest or run out of steam and decided to sell the collection. He chose Colin Cooke given their track record with the Workman, Crocker and other sales.

[Peckris 579]

The single minded determination of the individual who put that collection together, is little short of awesome. I wonder what prompted him to off load it

I got the impression that he had either lost interest or run out of steam and decided to sell the collection. He chose Colin Cooke given their track record with the Workman, Crocker and other sales.

My favourite coins (many of which aren't among my best, by some way) I would never want to part with, for all kinds of reasons including the sentimental. But I have others, which I wouldn't bat an eyelid about parting with. I kind of feel about them, "Ok, got that, seen the film, worn the T Shirt - what next?"

Anyone else feel they could divide their collection in two : one lot that they'd never part with, the other that they could part with without too many qualms? And that the first lot doesn't necessarily include their finest specimens?

[Rob 3,152]

The single minded determination of the individual who put that collection together, is little short of awesome. I wonder what prompted him to off load it

I got the impression that he had either lost interest or run out of steam and decided to sell the collection. He chose Colin Cooke given their track record with the Workman, Crocker and other sales.

My favourite coins (many of which aren't among my best, by some way) I would never want to part with, for all kinds of reasons including the sentimental. But I have others, which I wouldn't bat an eyelid about parting with. I kind of feel about them, "Ok, got that, seen the film, worn the T Shirt - what next?"

Anyone else feel they could divide their collection in two : one lot that they'd never part with, the other that they could part with without too many qualms? And that the first lot doesn't necessarily include their finest specimens?

I think that applies to most people. Some pieces are just too nice to sell, whilst with others you are ambivalent.

[RLC35 288]

ahh yes, still one i am looking for, HOWEVER that die crack looks like a distinguishing feature.

Every N over Z I have seen illustrated, including my own, has that die crack by the 1 of the date - certainly diagnostic! ......... unless anyone has one without?

David

David, Does your example have the double stamped "A" in Victoria? Just wondered.

[RLC35 288]

Been so busy with work recently that I've barely had time read this forum. Anyway, Bob, that's a really beautiful example! I also picked up a couple of coins from the Edinburgh collection and am very pleased with the quality. I spoke with Neil at the time and understood that the term 'Edinburgh' was simply used to denote a Scottish collector who wished to remain anonymous. He was amassing a collection of the very best examples and wouldn't consider filling spaces with poorer coins, hence some glaring gaps. I got the impression that he had either lost interest or run out of steam and decided to sell the collection. He chose Colin Cooke given their track record with the Workman, Crocker and other sales.

Accumulator, I talked to Neil Paisley also, and he said he bought the collection as a block, and the collection, was then sold on his website...so you are right with your assessment. Michael Gouby also said this was the best example of this variety known...to date at least! LOL! The best example listed in Michael's book is EF/AU.

[Peter 615]

I'm sure CGS will have the finest known. ;)

[RLC35 288]

Peter, I looked at CGS, and although they have three (3) graded at MS85, they have not identified any as the Satin 11, 1860 N over Z. Am I missing something?