1860 1d, N over Z

[Peter 615]

Bob

TPGS's are not the way to go.

We all have our own area of expertise.That TPG experts can't shine a candle to.

[davidrj 194]

David, Does your example have the double stamped "A" in Victoria? Just wondered.

Mine looks more like an inverted V

http://i593.photobuc...fONEoverZ-1.jpg[/img}

Maybe this was subsequently repaired

[declanwmagee 122]

David, Does your example have the double stamped "A" in Victoria? Just wondered.

Mine looks more like an inverted V

http://i593.photobuc...fONEoverZ-1.jpg[/img}

Maybe this was subsequently repaired

That die flaw that Scott identified really is a better diagnostic than the N, looking at your coin, David. I'd have missed the N, but I won't forget the die flaw now.

[RLC35 288]

David, Here is the Obverse, and the Doubled "A" in Victoria, on my coin. I think your coin has the same doubling, but the bottom of the right leg of the "A" is worn, and just looks extended as a result.

[Bronze & Copper Collector 412]

I've seen over a dozen of the N/Z's, and every one of them had the recut A...

[scott 144]

so we got recut A and a die flaw

easy this lark

[davidrj 194]

David, Here is the Obverse, and the Doubled "A" in Victoria, on my coin. I think your coin has the same doubling, but the bottom of the right leg of the "A" is worn, and just looks extended as a result.

Thanks Bob, I was totally unaware of that obverse variation - will try and get a better image of the A in my specimen

[1949threepence 3,367]

Been so busy with work recently that I've barely had time read this forum. Anyway, Bob, that's a really beautiful example! I also picked up a couple of coins from the Edinburgh collection and am very pleased with the quality. I spoke with Neil at the time and understood that the term 'Edinburgh' was simply used to denote a Scottish collector who wished to remain anonymous. He was amassing a collection of the very best examples and wouldn't consider filling spaces with poorer coins, hence some glaring gaps. I got the impression that he had either lost interest or run out of steam and decided to sell the collection. He chose Colin Cooke given their track record with the Workman, Crocker and other sales.

and me. Got the 1893 and 1874 F72 ~ which two did you get ?

My favourite coins (many of which aren't among my best, by some way) I would never want to part with, for all kinds of reasons including the sentimental. But I have others, which I wouldn't bat an eyelid about parting with. I kind of feel about them, "Ok, got that, seen the film, worn the T Shirt - what next?"

Anyone else feel they could divide their collection in two : one lot that they'd never part with, the other that they could part with without too many qualms? And that the first lot doesn't necessarily include their finest specimens?

Absolutely. There are some I'd never sell, or upgrade, even though there are better examples out there. But others, I would definitely replace. Not necessarily any particular logic to it either.

That die flaw that Scott identified really is a better diagnostic than the N, looking at your coin, David. I'd have missed the N, but I won't forget the die flaw now.

so we got recut A and a die flaw

easy this lark

Well spotted that man

[davidrj 194]

David, Here is the Obverse, and the Doubled "A" in Victoria, on my coin. I think your coin has the same doubling, but the bottom of the right leg of the "A" is worn, and just looks extended as a result.

Thanks Bob, I was totally unaware of that obverse variation - will try and get a better image of the A in my specimen

played with my new toy - a cheap USB microscope, on my 1860JA

details of the N over Z, the recut O of ONE (hard to spot on my coin), recut R of REG, and yes I agree an odd A in VICTORIA

David

[Coinery 1,147]

David, Here is the Obverse, and the Doubled "A" in Victoria, on my coin. I think your coin has the same doubling, but the bottom of the right leg of the "A" is worn, and just looks extended as a result.

Thanks Bob, I was totally unaware of that obverse variation - will try and get a better image of the A in my specimen

played with my new toy - a cheap USB microscope, on my 1860JA

details of the N over Z, the recut O of ONE (hard to spot on my coin), recut R of REG, and yes I agree an odd A in VICTORIA

David

Nice toy, David, Father Christmas HAS been early! I really like this N/Z overstrike, it's definitely one of the prettier errors out there, adding that elegant downturn to the left foot. A nice bit 'O' calligraphy!

[DaveG38 405]

David, Here is the Obverse, and the Doubled "A" in Victoria, on my coin. I think your coin has the same doubling, but the bottom of the right leg of the "A" is worn, and just looks extended as a result.

Thanks Bob, I was totally unaware of that obverse variation - will try and get a better image of the A in my specimen

played with my new toy - a cheap USB microscope, on my 1860JA

details of the N over Z, the recut O of ONE (hard to spot on my coin), recut R of REG, and yes I agree an odd A in VICTORIA

David

David,

What's the product and how much? The quality of the images looks really good and I think I must have one.

[davidrj 194]

What's the product and how much? The quality of the images looks really good and I think I must have one.

this one £23.40 + PP - though there are lots of similar on Ebay (avoid Chinese sellers!!!)

needed a bit of fiddling to work out how to work it, but quite happy for the price

NB only useful for looking at detail, won't do a whole coin

[Bernie 203]

Coinery, you are right. it is a N over sideways N, not a N over Z, as stated. Although it is also referred to as a N over Z, by some. Most of the readers have noticed the retooled O, and the die crack on the reverse of the coin, but an addition feature of the coin (and all of this Variety) is the double struck A on the Obverse. I didn't make a pic of the Obverse "A", but it is visably double struck.

Does anyone have any information on the edinburgh sale? ie...date of the sale...who held the sale ,etc?

I believe that there are two different Obverse dies used for coins that have the reverse N over N sideways. One die pair has a double struck A in Victoria and the other die pair has a normal A but the last T in britt and R,E,G are doubled. The R is most noticeable.

[DaveG38 405]

What's the product and how much? The quality of the images looks really good and I think I must have one.

this one £23.40 + PP - though there are lots of similar on Ebay (avoid Chinese sellers!!!)

needed a bit of fiddling to work out how to work it, but quite happy for the price

NB only useful for looking at detail, won't do a whole coin

David,

Thank you for this info. Looks really useful.

[davidrj 194]

I believe that there are two different Obverse dies used for coins that have the reverse N over N sideways. One die pair has a double struck A in Victoria and the other die pair has a normal A but the last T in britt and R,E,G are doubled. The R is most noticeable.

Now there's another gap in my collection!

[RLC35 288]

I think I's have to agree with Bernie, about the possibility of two different Obverse dies, since the "R" in your coin is doubled in one direction, and the "R" in mine is doubled the opposite direction.

[Accumulator 52]

Been so busy with work recently that I've barely had time read this forum. Anyway, Bob, that's a really beautiful example! I also picked up a couple of coins from the Edinburgh collection and am very pleased with the quality. I spoke with Neil at the time and understood that the term 'Edinburgh' was simply used to denote a Scottish collector who wished to remain anonymous. He was amassing a collection of the very best examples and wouldn't consider filling spaces with poorer coins, hence some glaring gaps. I got the impression that he had either lost interest or run out of steam and decided to sell the collection. He chose Colin Cooke given their track record with the Workman, Crocker and other sales.

and me. Got the 1893 and 1874 F72 ~ which two did you get ?

I got the F67 and the F79. Unfortunately a couple of others I would have liked had already gone

[Accumulator 52]

I believe that there are two different Obverse dies used for coins that have the reverse N over N sideways. One die pair has a double struck A in Victoria and the other die pair has a normal A but the last T in britt and R,E,G are doubled. The R is most noticeable.

Now there's another gap in my collection!

Two gaps in mine!

[1949threepence 3,367]

Been so busy with work recently that I've barely had time read this forum. Anyway, Bob, that's a really beautiful example! I also picked up a couple of coins from the Edinburgh collection and am very pleased with the quality. I spoke with Neil at the time and understood that the term 'Edinburgh' was simply used to denote a Scottish collector who wished to remain anonymous. He was amassing a collection of the very best examples and wouldn't consider filling spaces with poorer coins, hence some glaring gaps. I got the impression that he had either lost interest or run out of steam and decided to sell the collection. He chose Colin Cooke given their track record with the Workman, Crocker and other sales.

and me. Got the 1893 and 1874 F72 ~ which two did you get ?

I got the F67 and the F79. Unfortunately a couple of others I would have liked had already gone

Both very neat captures, nonetheless. Especially the F67.

[InforaPenny 21]

There are actually two different obverse working dies that are paired with the “N over sideways N†reverse die (Gouby 1860K). The striking order of these die-linked coins can be determined from a progression of die cracks on the reverse near the 1 of 1860 and the 2nd N of PENNY. The first these obverse dies has the letter R of REG strongly doubled, and the second the letter A of VICTORIA strongly doubled (British Numismatic Journal, Volume 71, 2001, pages 174-6). From comments, including those of Bronze & Copper Collector, it appears that the 2nd die pairing may be the more common one.

Best Regards,

InforaPenny