Mary Groat for Grading

[Only Saxon 0]

Hi guys

I just found the forum and have spent the last few hours reading threads.

As you can tell from my user name i collect Saxon coinage but even though im a metal detectorist i never seem to find any.

But what i do find is lots of hammered coins, i was very lucky and found 7 today and 3 of those were Mary I Groats

I have attached a picture of the best one to ask your thoughts on its grade, its something i struggle with the later the hammered coin is.

Also as i sell most of my finds what would you say its worth is ?

Many thanks for any help.

[Only Saxon 0]

And this

Edited December 5, 2012 by Only Saxon

[azda 979]

Good Fine, bent, possibly a soil find and cleaned?

[Paulus 1,975]

Hi guys

I just found the forum and have spent the last few hours reading threads.

As you can tell from my user name i collect Saxon coinage but even though im a metal detectorist i never seem to find any.

But what i do find is lots of hammered coins, i was very lucky and found 7 today and 3 of those were Mary I Groats

I have attached a picture of the best one to ask your thoughts on its grade, its something i struggle with the later the hammered coin is.

Also as i sell most of my finds what would you say its worth is ?

Many thanks for any help.

It might make £100-£150 on eBay with that nice portrait?

What were your other finds?

[Only Saxon 0]

Other finds were 2 Lizzy half groats and Charles I penny.

Important question for me is did is do right in cleaning them ?, I use hot water and tinfoil on my silvers to bring out the detail...Is that good or bad ?

Thanks for the replys guys.

[Coinery 1,149]

Other finds were 2 Lizzy half groats and Charles I penny.

Important question for me is did is do right in cleaning them ?, I use hot water and tinfoil on my silvers to bring out the detail...Is that good or bad ?

Thanks for the replys guys.

For my own part, I'd say your coin doesn't look overdone (though I am viewing on a small screen), and that a certain amount of 'wash' is neccesary with soil finds! What spoils a coin forever though is the use of any kind of abrasive that, in affect, smooths up the higher points of the devices; this never looks natural, even after retoning!

Excellent finds, I'd be out every day if I could find just ONE hammered for my effort!

Edited December 6, 2012 by Coinery

[Only Saxon 0]

Thanks Coinery, i try to do as little to the coins as possible.

Yes im very lucky where i live with finds, im now upto 1509 hammered coins...though that is over a 20 year period.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Only Saxon

[TomGoodheart 400]

Other finds were 2 Lizzy half groats and Charles I penny.

Important question for me is did is do right in cleaning them ?, I use hot water and tinfoil on my silvers to bring out the detail...Is that good or bad ?

Thanks for the replys guys.

Welcome Saxon!

I've seen quite a number of ruined coins on ebay. Some are covered very obviously in scratches. One in particular would sell for £120 easily, but in its current condition, to me, worthless. Others are quite shiny and smooth. I have tended to assume that tinfoil was responsible for the latter. I've also heard of 'spit and tinfoil' being used to identify the metal, but any abrasion to a coin will damage it. Personally I'd be reluctant to buy even a very rare coin that had been overcleaned.

Having said that, your groat doesn't look too bad. However I would try to avoid any cleaning that involved rubbing a coin if possible. Silver is surpisingly soft and detail=value. If I want to get gunk off I soak in warm water then use a cotton bud very gently on the worst bits. If it doesn't shift, I leave it. If you are selling a coin then, providing you can identify it, I would be inclined to leave any cleaning to the buyer.

Oh, and if you or your friends ever find any Charles I shillings you'd like identified, I'm happy to give it a go as it's an area that interests me.

[azda 979]

Maybe invest in an ultrasonic cleaner that would hopefully shake off most of the dirt, along with some hot water.

[Peckris 579]

Other finds were 2 Lizzy half groats and Charles I penny.

Important question for me is did is do right in cleaning them ?, I use hot water and tinfoil on my silvers to bring out the detail...Is that good or bad ?

Thanks for the replys guys.

I'm no hammered expert, but it doesn't look cleaned. Hot water is essential for dirty silver, though I'm not sure where the tin foil comes into it? Another possible "crap remover" is surgical spirit, available from all good chemists, but you would have to apply it gently with a microfibre cloth (you know, the kind of thing opticians give you with every new pair of specs.) But certainly, wash it first.

[Colin G. 147]

Other finds were 2 Lizzy half groats and Charles I penny.

Important question for me is did is do right in cleaning them ?, I use hot water and tinfoil on my silvers to bring out the detail...Is that good or bad ?

Thanks for the replys guys.

I'm no hammered expert, but it doesn't look cleaned. Hot water is essential for dirty silver, though I'm not sure where the tin foil comes into it? Another possible "crap remover" is surgical spirit, available from all good chemists, but you would have to apply it gently with a microfibre cloth (you know, the kind of thing opticians give you with every new pair of specs.) But certainly, wash it first.

I think the tinfoil approach is misunderstood, it is not rubbing the coin with tinfoil, it is purely spit and holding the tinfoil against the coin/spit which starts some form of chemical reaction. After a few seconds the coin is rinsed and the appearance is generally improved. I have to be honest and say I do not fully understand the reaction process taking place and therefore the resultant microscopic effect on the surface of the coin. But when I have seen it carried out, there is no rubbing involved, so scratching should not occur.

[TomGoodheart 400]

I think the tinfoil approach is misunderstood, it is not rubbing the coin with tinfoil, it is purely spit and holding the tinfoil against the coin/spit which starts some form of chemical reaction. After a few seconds the coin is rinsed and the appearance is generally improved. I have to be honest and say I do not fully understand the reaction process taking place and therefore the resultant microscopic effect on the surface of the coin. But when I have seen it carried out, there is no rubbing involved, so scratching should not occur.

Ah, that doesn't sound as bad as I'd thought. Thanks for the explanation Colin!

[Coinery 1,149]

Thanks Coinery, i try to do as little to the coins as possible.

Yes im very lucky where i live with finds, im now upto 1509 hammered coins...though that is over a 20 year period.

Sorry, I didn't get that...what field was that, where did you say you lived?

[declanwmagee 122]

I think the tinfoil approach is misunderstood, it is not rubbing the coin with tinfoil, it is purely spit and holding the tinfoil against the coin/spit which starts some form of chemical reaction. After a few seconds the coin is rinsed and the appearance is generally improved. I have to be honest and say I do not fully understand the reaction process taking place and therefore the resultant microscopic effect on the surface of the coin. But when I have seen it carried out, there is no rubbing involved, so scratching should not occur.

Interesting! Spit is vaguely alkaline, and tin foil is really aluminium, which has quite a high affinity with oxygen, so it may reduce any oxides on the coin. Watch out though as aluminium oxide is harder than steel, so any rubbing will be catastrophic!

[Only Saxon 0]

Yes Colin is correct, you spit on the coin then hold it tight in tin foil, the coin will get very hot and smell of rotten eggs.

I believe its the sulphur reacting, this brings out the detail on coins that otherwise look completely defaced and worn..but evn so as you guys have said you dont want to over do it.

Pity i dont have the coin anymore Tomgoodheart but i had a very very nice Newark Besiged Ninepence, no idea how it ended up where i live but it was a cracking coin.

I have a small coin of Charles I i found this week, very worn but i will put a picture up for you.

[Only Saxon 0]

Well after looking at what Ebay had to offer and as usual every Mary Groat was over graded, also after reading about you guys be totally truthfull in your listings but getting nowhere near the price of the sellers who overgrade i decided if you cant beat em join em

I graded it g/f to v/f and over priced it.

Sad really but its a dog eat dog world i suppose, i still have painfull memorys of selling 7 Henry III short cross coins that made spinks coins look like tat for £25 each because a coin dealer said thats what there worth.

You live and learn though.

[Paulus 1,975]

Well after looking at what Ebay had to offer and as usual every Mary Groat was over graded, also after reading about you guys be totally truthfull in your listings but getting nowhere near the price of the sellers who overgrade i decided if you cant beat em join em

I graded it g/f to v/f and over priced it.

Sad really but its a dog eat dog world i suppose, i still have painfull memorys of selling 7 Henry III short cross coins that made spinks coins look like tat for £25 each because a coin dealer said thats what there worth.

You live and learn though.

Good luck Saxon, please let us know what you get for it!

[Coinery 1,149]

Well after looking at what Ebay had to offer and as usual every Mary Groat was over graded, also after reading about you guys be totally truthfull in your listings but getting nowhere near the price of the sellers who overgrade i decided if you cant beat em join em

I graded it g/f to v/f and over priced it.

Sad really but its a dog eat dog world i suppose, i still have painfull memorys of selling 7 Henry III short cross coins that made spinks coins look like tat for £25 each because a coin dealer said thats what there worth.

You live and learn though.

Good luck Saxon, please let us know what you get for it!

I'm guessing £80-£100, good luck Saxon and, yes, let us know, or link us the sale?

[Paulus 1,975]

Well after looking at what Ebay had to offer and as usual every Mary Groat was over graded, also after reading about you guys be totally truthfull in your listings but getting nowhere near the price of the sellers who overgrade i decided if you cant beat em join em

I graded it g/f to v/f and over priced it.

Sad really but its a dog eat dog world i suppose, i still have painfull memorys of selling 7 Henry III short cross coins that made spinks coins look like tat for £25 each because a coin dealer said thats what there worth.

You live and learn though.

Good luck Saxon, please let us know what you get for it!

I'm guessing £80-£100, good luck Saxon and, yes, let us know, or link us the sale?

I am guessing slightly more, this is the link I think!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200860215136?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

[Only Saxon 0]

Hehe i cringe everytime i look at the price

I have got six watchers on it already but its just people wanting to see how much it sells for, Ive got the coin dealer coming round today so will see what he says.

But he likes to buy at a Third of the book price so will not get much from him.

[Peckris 579]

Hehe i cringe everytime i look at the price

I have got six watchers on it already but its just people wanting to see how much it sells for, Ive got the coin dealer coming round today so will see what he says.

But he likes to buy at a Third of the book price so will not get much from him.

Cracking coin? Oh, I don't know - folded, yes, but not actually cracking

[Only Saxon 0]

Hehe i cringe everytime i look at the price

I have got six watchers on it already but its just people wanting to see how much it sells for, Ive got the coin dealer coming round today so will see what he says.

But he likes to buy at a Third of the book price so will not get much from him.

Cracking coin? Oh, I don't know - folded, yes, but not actually cracking

If you look closely it does actually have a crack in it

Dealer offered me £100 btw which i actually thought was a fair price so will probably pull it off and sell to him.

[Coinery 1,149]

Hehe i cringe everytime i look at the price

I have got six watchers on it already but its just people wanting to see how much it sells for, Ive got the coin dealer coming round today so will see what he says.

But he likes to buy at a Third of the book price so will not get much from him.

Cracking coin? Oh, I don't know - folded, yes, but not actually cracking

If you look closely it does actually have a crack in it

Dealer offered me £100 btw which i actually thought was a fair price so will probably pull it off and sell to him.

Result, avoiding eBay fees too!

Any chance you could fire me over the high resolution images for cross-reference or use in my groat die study?

[Only Saxon 0]

Have sent them over to you Coinery

[Only Saxon 0]

Forgot to add that i have lots of images of them and if you need better close ups let me know.