Stack's Bowers Auction - "Rare" 1862 Pennies

[Peckris 579]

As far as I know, there are two date varieties fro the 1878 halfpenny:

(1) normal (Freeman's reverse O) and

(2) wide date (Freeman's reverse N)

There is no "small date" and "large date" die variety (unfortunately, NGC thinks so at the present time!). However, Stack's apparently disagreed or thought that my comment was not worthy of a reply. (I have a nice specimen of Freeman 334, acquired from London Coins, so I'm well acquainted with the difference between the two reverses.)

I suppose, in one sense, you could describe the 'wide date' as a 'large date' (and vice versa). But the existing terms are perfectly adequate and more accurate, so though technically Stack's aren't wrong, it's irritating, I can see that.

[cathrine 70]

As far as I know, there are two date varieties fro the 1878 halfpenny:

(1) normal (Freeman's reverse O) and

(2) wide date (Freeman's reverse N)

There is no "small date" and "large date" die variety (unfortunately, NGC thinks so at the present time!). However, Stack's apparently disagreed or thought that my comment was not worthy of a reply. (I have a nice specimen of Freeman 334, acquired from London Coins, so I'm well acquainted with the difference between the two reverses.)

I suppose, in one sense, you could describe the 'wide date' as a 'large date' (and vice versa). But the existing terms are perfectly adequate and more accurate, so though technically Stack's aren't wrong, it's irritating, I can see that.

[azda 983]

The so called small date numerals sold for $1300 and the RARE No Signature for $650, 17.5% to be added for commission

[Colin88 55]

The so called small date numerals sold for $1300 and the RARE No Signature for $650, 17.5% to be added for commission

How could anyone have paid $1300 for that 1862 ! I'm in the wrong business.

I hope the buyer finds out soon and gets his money back from Stacks.....and learns a lesson...like we've all done over the collecting years.

[Bronze & Copper Collector 417]

Same two coins now on Teletrade....

NOT a 1862 Small date on Teletrade....

Same coin previously sold in Stacks/Bowers Auction

"1862 NO reverse Signature on Teletrade"

Same coin previously sold in Stacks/Bowers Auction

[Peter 615]

The claims should be against NGC.

I don't blame the auctioneers although they should have pulled them from the original auction after being warned by experts.

The pleasure of trusting TPG's...experts NOT.

[Accumulator 52]

Same two coins now on Teletrade....

NOT a 1862 Small date on Teletrade....

Same coin previously sold in Stacks/Bowers Auction

"1862 NO reverse Signature on Teletrade"

Same coin previously sold in Stacks/Bowers Auction

I missed this thread first time around but am astounded that anyone could part with so much money, without doing even cursory research. 2 minutes on Google would have shown up the errors, particularly with the supposed 1/2d numerals!

Incidentally I'd not heard of Teletrade but notice it states that only US or canadian citizens can use it!

Edited February 8, 2013 by Accumulator

[Rob 3,246]

Same two coins now on Teletrade....

NOT a 1862 Small date on Teletrade....

Same coin previously sold in Stacks/Bowers Auction

"1862 NO reverse Signature on Teletrade"

Same coin previously sold in Stacks/Bowers Auction

I missed this thread first time around but am astounded that anyone could part with so much money, without doing even cursory research. 2 minutes on Google would have shown up the errors, particularly with the supposed 1/2d numerals!

Incidentally I'd not heard of Teletrade but notice it states that only US or canadian citizens can use it!

Don't complain. Not being allowed to bid helps the country's balance of payments, especially when crap like this is on offer.

[Bronze & Copper Collector 417]

The claims should be against NGC.

I don't blame the auctioneers although they should have pulled them from the original auction after being warned by experts.

The pleasure of trusting TPG's...experts NOT.

Just as one TPG handled the 1860 farthing Mule Mis-Attribution fiasco a few years back....

LMAO!!!!

They refused to acknowledge any error, take any responsibility, nor admit any culpability... And in doing so essentially created a new variety.....

Edited February 8, 2013 by Bronze & Copper Collector

[Rob 3,246]

I don't know what their success rate is in attribution, but I looked at half a dozen Anne farthings a while back and 2 of the 6 were wrong together with one which had the label as 1714 despite the evidence to the contrary on the coin (1713) and an MS63 which shouldn't have made better than 55 unless of course MS63 means many scratches (63).

Edited February 8, 2013 by Rob

[Bronze & Copper Collector 417]

There is definitely a problem when those in a position of authority, whose work is held to the highest standards, make basic errors of attribution that are accepted by the community merely because they are who they are….

These errors of attribution cost can buyers (I don’t call them collectors necessarily) thousands of dollars each time the coins are sold and are in doing so the error of mis-attribution is perpetuated… CAVEAT EMPTOR!!!

I do not call into question the subject of grading nor the determination of whether the coin is genuine or not….. I only question the the fact of the attributions being correct….

I do not profess to be an expert on all coins, but those I do know, I can determine for myself when an attribution is incorrect… I acknowledge that it is impossible to know everything about everything, but, if you are going to accept a fee for that determination, then at least make the attempt to be correct and stand behind your work….

If you do not know the answer do not profess a professional determination that unfortunately is accepted as gospel, (although it should not be) by some...

The advice that is always proffered, "Buy the COIN and NOT the SLAB" could not be more apropos than in this situation...

Edited February 8, 2013 by Bronze & Copper Collector

[Bronze & Copper Collector 417]

.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Bronze & Copper Collector

[Peter 615]

I thought 3 "experts" were meant to grade and define every coin.I suggest TPG's start employing experts.

[1949threepence 3,368]

What amazes me is that a company like NGC would allow such lax standards to prevail, when they must surely realise that the resultant obvious and crass errors will severely tarnish their reputation as a first rate concern. In allowing such mistakes, (whether by accident or design), to continue, they are lending themselves to utter ridicule.

Edited February 8, 2013 by 1949threepence