Victoria penny 1862 - is it a good one?

[Sheencrofter 0]

Hi,

I have a chance of buying this Victorian 1862 penny and wonder if it is one of the valuable ones.

I see there are 3 different obverses for the 1862, but I can't work out which one this is and wonder if anyone can help.

Many thanks.

[Peckris 579]

Hi,

I have a chance of buying this Victorian 1862 penny and wonder if it is one of the valuable ones.

I see there are 3 different obverses for the 1862, but I can't work out which one this is and wonder if anyone can help.

Many thanks.

I only know of two obverses. Your penny appears to be Freeman 6+G which is the commonest type. It's a very presentable reverse, though too much wear on the obverse for my liking. Can I ask how much it is on sale for / you are prepared to bid? FWIW you should be able to pick up an 1862 in that condition for around £10-£15. For a higher outlay you would find something much better, as it's one of the commoner dates (and it, or 1863, are dates I would recommend to a type collector who wanted a good example of an early bun penny.)

[Gary 7]

Hi,

I have a chance of buying this Victorian 1862 penny and wonder if it is one of the valuable ones.

I see there are 3 different obverses for the 1862, but I can't work out which one this is and wonder if anyone can help.

Many thanks.

The pics a little hazy but I am almost sure its the common obv 6.

Heres a close up of the major features on an obv 6

16 Leaves to the wreath, an extra leaf protrudes from the top of the fourth group numbered 13 in the pic.

There is no signature on or under the bust and the elongated colon dot and die flaw.

[Gary 7]

There are 3 Obv for 1862, Freeman only lists 2.

The other 2 obvs both have a signature on or beneath the bust and are extremely rare.

If you are after an affordable decent grade 1862 penny then I can offer you this one PM me if your interested. My grade for this one is NEF

Edited January 23, 2013 by Gary

[Peckris 579]

The pics a little hazy but I am almost sure its the common obv 6.

Heres a close up of the major features on an obv 6

16 Leaves to the wreath, an extra leaf protrudes from the top of the fourth group numbered 13 in the pic.

There is no signature on or under the bust and the elongated colon dot and die flaw.

The quick and easy way to tell is to look at the whole bust in relation to where it sits. From Obverse 6, the gap between the top of the head and the linear circle is only half what it was before. Once you've seen a couple of examples, the difference is immediately obvious.

[Accumulator 52]

Certainly the (much) more common 6 + G, and not the very rare 1/2d numerals either. As everyone has mentioned, there are a lot of good 1862's out there and you could do much better than the example you show for not too much outlay. Gary's coin is a good step up from yours.

[Gary 7]

Could have saved myself the trouble with my pics!! Forgot about Accumulator's homepage.

Have a look here for good penny pics

Pennies 1860-1869

[Accumulator 52]

Could have saved myself the trouble with my pics!! Forgot about Accumulator's homepage.

Have a look here for good penny pics

Pennies 1860-1869

That's very kind of you Gary, but when I look at that particular page all I see is gaps and coins that need upgrading. The years after 1869 are definitely stronger. I guess we're all far too critical of our own collections!

[Paulus 1,975]

Could have saved myself the trouble with my pics!! Forgot about Accumulator's homepage.

Have a look here for good penny pics

Pennies 1860-1869

Hi Gary, I have PM'd you

[Rob 3,152]

Could have saved myself the trouble with my pics!! Forgot about Accumulator's homepage.

Have a look here for good penny pics

Pennies 1860-1869

That's very kind of you Gary, but when I look at that particular page all I see is gaps and coins that need upgrading. The years after 1869 are definitely stronger. I guess we're all far too critical of our own collections!

Good job, or we would all rest on our laurels. It also helps the individual to grade.

[Sheencrofter 0]

First off, I have to thank all of you for your help. Where would we newbies be if it wasn’t for collectors like you.

I get the distinct impression that I will need good quality coins before I can even half understand the different obverses and reverses in the 1860 – 1882 batch.

Also I wonder if Freeman gives more detail for these obverses & reverses than I see in Spinks Coins of England. And if so, is Freeman much more expensive?

Accumulator, I really like your collection and it has given me a lot of inspiration.

Gary, thanks very much for taking the trouble to post the pic on the leaves and colon.Seeing that made it all start making sense to me.

Also I will PM you re your coin as soon as I can.

Many thanks to everyone.

Sheen

[declanwmagee 122]

First off, I have to thank all of you for your help. Where would we newbies be if it wasn’t for collectors like you.

I get the distinct impression that I will need good quality coins before I can even half understand the different obverses and reverses in the 1860 – 1882 batch.

Also I wonder if Freeman gives more detail for these obverses & reverses than I see in Spinks Coins of England. And if so, is Freeman much more expensive?

Accumulator, I really like your collection and it has given me a lot of inspiration.

Gary, thanks very much for taking the trouble to post the pic on the leaves and colon.Seeing that made it all start making sense to me.

Also I will PM you re your coin as soon as I can.

Many thanks to everyone.

Sheen

I think most of us here would agree that you can't really get serious in that area without Freeman, Sheen.

Search eBay for "freeman bronze coinage" and you'll see a few there - quite a range of prices too. Even the most expensive one is worth it.

Having said that, Dave Groom's book "The Identification of British 20th Century Bronze Coin Varieties" is even better for 1900 onwards.

[Sheencrofter 0]

Thanks for that Declan.

I shall look into it.

[Peckris 579]

First off, I have to thank all of you for your help. Where would we newbies be if it wasn’t for collectors like you.

I get the distinct impression that I will need good quality coins before I can even half understand the different obverses and reverses in the 1860 – 1882 batch.

Also I wonder if Freeman gives more detail for these obverses & reverses than I see in Spinks Coins of England. And if so, is Freeman much more expensive?

Accumulator, I really like your collection and it has given me a lot of inspiration.

Gary, thanks very much for taking the trouble to post the pic on the leaves and colon.Seeing that made it all start making sense to me.

Also I will PM you re your coin as soon as I can.

Many thanks to everyone.

Sheen

The short answer is 'Yes'. Spink list pretty much all the Freeman obverses and reverses, with photos, but the text just lists the main identifiers, and what's most lacking is close-ups of the crucial bit that separates that particular type from others.

Spink did publish a reprint of Freeman, and it's still available via Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1902040783/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=coicom-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=6738&creativeASIN=1902040783

There's also a couple of shabby copies (but you only want it for reference, right?) on eBay, e.g. :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bronze-Coinage-of-Great-Britain-Freeman-M-J-/310563161279?pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item484f01c4bf

[Gary 7]

I started off with pennies as do most people. The book from Michael Freeman is probably considered the bible for collectors of bronze coinage as it does not just include pennies but also halfpennies and farthings too. However, the first book came out in 1970 with the second revised edition appearing in 1985. Spinks did do a reprint in 2006 and up until that point a second hand copy of the second edition would sell for around £50 plus. The Spink reprint was just that a reprint and does not have any updated information. Since 1985, 27 years ago there have been other discoveries, Die pairings, errors etc that are not in Freemans. As you can imagine in 1985 the standard of digital photography and printing were not up to todays standards and in my opinion for you as a beginner so to speak a much better buy would be Michael Goubys "The British Bronze Penny 1860-1970" although the print date of this is 1986 and the photos are black and white they are larger and easier to distinguish. He has recently bought out a new one, The Specialised Edition" which is up to date and has good quality photos in colour however it just covers pennies from 1860-1901 and this one cost £50. Freemans costs £35 and the old Gouby costs £22 all available directly from Micheal Gouby . I do have all three and use all of them regularly. If your budget stretches to it then I would get both Freemans and Goubys 1860-1970 and when you really get the bug and you will! invest in the Specialised Edition. Micheal Gouby also has s lot of useful info and picture on his site, just look at his sales list.

[Gary 7]

That's very kind of you Gary, but when I look at that particular page all I see is gaps and coins that need upgrading. The years after 1869 are definitely stronger. I guess we're all far too critical of our own collections!

You may have a few gaps but that is more than made up for by Quality of the coins and the photos. Agreed, we are all far too critical of our own collections

[Bronze & Copper Collector 412]

As stated above, definitely Obverse 6.

Freeman identified an 1862 with obverse 2, and after his book was published a specimen was discovered with obverse 3.. Both are extremely rare, with the obverse 3 being the rarer of the two..

I concur with the comments regarding the reference books... I too use all three volumes in my studies of the varieties....

Edited January 24, 2013 by Bronze & Copper Collector

[Paulus 1,975]

I am looking to acquire an attractive mid-high grade example of this type but I am very new to this area. I wondered what others thought of this one (I was a losing bidder) in terms of grade and whether the winning bidder paid about the going rate for it?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251214086663?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

[Accumulator 52]

I am looking to acquire an attractive mid-high grade example of this type but I am very new to this area. I wondered what others thought of this one (I was a losing bidder) in terms of grade and whether the winning bidder paid about the going rate for it?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251214086663?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

It's a good sharp strike with all the details showing and minimal wear to the high points, so I would grade at GEF. For me personally, I would like to see some lustre though many collectors prefer attractive toning over patchy lustre. I think the price achieved was fair for the year and coin. Full lustre examples are going to be £200+,

[Gary 7]

I am looking to acquire an attractive mid-high grade example of this type but I am very new to this area. I wondered what others thought of this one (I was a losing bidder) in terms of grade and whether the winning bidder paid about the going rate for it?

http://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1423.l2648

It's a good sharp strike with all the details showing and minimal wear to the high points, so I would grade at GEF. For me personally, I would like to see some lustre though many collectors prefer attractive toning over patchy lustre. I think the price achieved was fair for the year and coin. Full lustre examples are going to be £200+,

that was a nice 1863 penny and I am one of those collectors that likes nice attractive toning

Edited January 25, 2013 by Gary

[Peckris 579]

I am looking to acquire an attractive mid-high grade example of this type but I am very new to this area. I wondered what others thought of this one (I was a losing bidder) in terms of grade and whether the winning bidder paid about the going rate for it?

http://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1423.l2648

It's a good sharp strike with all the details showing and minimal wear to the high points, so I would grade at GEF. For me personally, I would like to see some lustre though many collectors prefer attractive toning over patchy lustre. I think the price achieved was fair for the year and coin. Full lustre examples are going to be £200+,

that was a nice 1863 penny and I am one of those collectors that likes nice attractive toning

I agree with both assessments. Very fair coin and a fair price.

[Peter 615]

The fully lustred coins often have carbon spots.

A good tone is my preference (although I have BU's )