Detecting Munich

[azda 979]

Ok, so a new topic, and maybe shoud'nt be in a coin forum, but i'm a coinie and been a member here for quite some time and have just added to my hobbies.

So now i have questions, it regards where i live, the places i want to detect, morality and loads more questions if you bother to read further. So basically i've went one step further and bought a metal detector. Its a progressive thing, being interested in coins, then came history and this bloody detector.

I thought of several places to go, being in Germany (Munich) history is abound............Obviously not wishing to offend no one, please, if it does, then don't reply. My spot of interest shortly will be Dachau, this was the 1st concentration camp of the 3rd Reich and a role model used by the reigime. In 1933 Himler opened Dachau. My plan is to eventually detect the surrounding area, roughly about 5km before Dachau and it's surroundings..

I had a conversation with the boss regarding this, she's of the opinion that, old farmland has been handed down through the years, asking permission will be frowned upon. Her other opinion is that i should'nt ask farmers and others, why, well that's a long story, but if you're really up to speed so far then you might understand the rest. This basically leaves 1 other option.

This is a complicated subject................It's doing my fecking head in, moralities are confusing. 1 or 2 facts i never knew about Dachau........

It was the 1st camp, and was the role model for all others...

The SS took over all of Dachau and not just a part of it

SS Troops were trained at Dachau

North of Dachau was a small Village called Herbertshausen. There was an SS practise firing range there. 4000 Russian POWs were target practise

The control Building of the firing range is now a homeless shelter. The gates had the SS ruins on them, and still have the boltholes...........

OK, my worry is, i'm NEVER going to get a nod from farmers in this area.

I'll add to this as i go, so much to add , opinions so far and thoughts

[HistoricCoinage 147]

You might want to have a look through Dan's videos and also find him on Facebook as he's an Englishman detecting in Germany. He has lots of experience with detecting WWII-era sites and could probably answer a few of your questions.

I do not think that detecting the place should be completely frowned upon by others provided that respect is shown, given the context. People will always find this a troubling area of history as, for some, it is still in living memory.

However, in terms of landowner's permission, without it you are breaking the law. Trespass is trespass. If I were you I'd find land elsewhere, above board and not damage the reputation of detectorists. Just my tuppence worth.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[azda 979]

You might want to have a look through Dan's videos and also find him on Facebook as he's an Englishman detecting in Germany. He has lots of experience with detecting WWII-era sites and could probably answer a few of your questions.

I do not think that detecting the place should be completely frowned upon by others provided that respect is shown, given the context. People will always find this a troubling area of history as, for some, it is still in living memory.

However, in terms of landowner's permission, without it you are breaking the law. Trespass is trespass. If I were you I'd find land elsewhere, above board and not damage the reputation of detectorists. Just my tuppence worth.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Unfortunately Dan is quite a preeeeeeeeeeeeeck in the detecting circles. He is on my FB list, but he'll soon be booted for being a Diva tw*t. Booting a friend of mine for disagreeing with something Dan said.

In short, Dan is a wan**r wanting to be a famous diva

[HistoricCoinage 147]

In short, Dan is a wan**r wanting to be a famous diva

No question about that, but at least he might be a point of contact if you needed any immediate help with WWII detecting.

[azda 979]

In short, Dan is a wan**r wanting to be a famous diva

No question about that, but at least he might be a point of contact if you needed any immediate help with WWII detecting.

Its nothing to do with adding Dan etc. Its about morals for me. I know exactly where to go and exactly what to do, for me it's about nighthawking or not because i know if i ask the landowners that i will probably get turned down.

Land, cash and any other wealth related activity in Germany is owned by older Germans, where has it originated is what you might want to ask..........

[Peckris 579]

I don't quite know why, but metal detecting seems quite frivolous to juxtapose with Nazi concentration camps. Yet, if it was done for purely historical reasons, it should not be so. Your problem is that the sores are still too raw.

[HistoricCoinage 147]

Its nothing to do with adding Dan etc. Its about morals for me. I know exactly where to go and exactly what to do, for me it's about nighthawking or not because i know if i ask the landowners that i will probably get turned down.

Land, cash and any other wealth related activity in Germany is owned by older Germans, where has it originated is what you might want to ask..........

But then, hypothetically, what would you do with any finds unearthed?

[azda 979]

Its nothing to do with adding Dan etc. Its about morals for me. I know exactly where to go and exactly what to do, for me it's about nighthawking or not because i know if i ask the landowners that i will probably get turned down.

Land, cash and any other wealth related activity in Germany is owned by older Germans, where has it originated is what you might want to ask..........

But then, hypothetically, what would you do with any finds unearthed?

I'm not Dan.........This is a little more raw than "just detecting". This is where the SS were formed, this is where the 1st Concentration camp was established" This is where 4000 Russian POWs were shot as target practise. Difference with myself and Dan is, i know what i COULD be letting myslef in for. There's also the other scenario where you find bodies who were unrecorded, which is what also happened at Dachau..........It's a very thorny issue in this household right now, bearing in mind the mother-in-law is jewish

[Colin G. 147]

I have no problem with almost any area being a potential site for detecting/archaeology, our history tends to have a brutal past, and inevitably to uncover that history wounds will be exposed. As some as said these wounds are still fairly raw, which makes it a particularly difficult challenge to obtain suitable permissions, but whatever is done, it has to be done in the correct manner. If people are serious about detecting it is important to understand the history of the hobby. The detecting community in the UK have struggled (and continue to struggle) against large parts of the establishment that would much rather see detecting banned altogether, and this is a common theme across Europe. A lot of the ammunition for them to undertake such measures is due to people taking exactly the approach you talk about. It does so much harm to the hobby as a whole, and creates endless problems for those who detect responsibly.

There are several issues worth considering:

If you are not the landowner then you have no right on that land without the owners permission. How would you feel if someone started detecting on you property without permission?

Why do you feel the need to detect that specific area and what are your reasons for wanting to detect that area? If historically motivated, then you have to follow the correct channels, otherwise you would not be able to report/record any finds, and then what would be the benefit of undertaking detecting in such an area.

There are many sites in the UK I would love to have a go at detecting, but I do not have permission and therefore I am unable to at the moment. I accept that and would much rather try and convince the doubters, by showing them the positive sides of the hobby. Yes it can take a long time to change opinions, but I have no doubt in my mind it is the correct approach.

I am unsure of the approach in Germany towards detecting....what are the principle laws?

Another route may be trying to get involved/build relationships with archaeologists when they are dealing with such sites, you can then become part of the team uncovering such history. You are more likely to get the permissions required as a result.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Colin G.

[azda 979]

I have no problem with almost any area being a potential site for detecting/archaeology, our history tends to have a brutal past, and inevitably to uncover that history wounds will be exposed. As some as said these wounds are still fairly raw, which makes it a particularly difficult challenge to obtain suitable permissions, but whatever is done, it has to be done in the correct manner. If people are serious about detecting it is important to understand the history of the hobby. The detecting community in the UK have struggled (and continue to struggle) against large parts of the establishment that would much rather see detecting banned altogether, and this is a common theme across Europe. A lot of the ammunition for them to undertake such measures is due to people taking exactly the approach you talk about. It does so much harm to the hobby as a whole, and creates endless problems for those who detect responsibly.

There are several issues worth considering:

If you are not the landowner then you have no right on that land without the owners permission. How would you feel if someone started detecting on you property without permission?

Why do you feel the need to detect that specific area and what are your reasons for wanting to detect that area? If historically motivated, then you have to follow the correct channels, otherwise you would not be able to report/record any finds, and then what would be the benefit of undertaking detecting in such an area.

There are many sites in the UK I would love to have a go at detecting, but I do not have permission and therefore I am unable to at the moment. I accept that and would much rather try and convince the doubters, by showing them the positive sides of the hobby. Yes it can take a long time to change opinions, but I have no doubt in my mind it is the correct approach.

I am unsure of the approach in Germany towards detecting....what are the principle laws?

Another route may be trying to get involved/build relationships with archaeologists when they are dealing with such sites, you can then become part of the team uncovering such history. You are more likely to get the permissions required as a result.

Why do i want to detect Dachau? Well, it's obviously near to me and it has such a historical/brutal past. I was speaking with the boss about this, and as i said at the start, she believes that Dachau as a whole would rather not open up any old wounds. It has a shameful past and by all accounts its a past that Dachau as a whole would rather forget. How they'd quite manage that with a concentration camp sitting in their village is beyond me.

Reading through a German detecting forum, it was apparently better NOT to ask as you're only going to get a rejection anyway. Its been said also that if there's a gate and it says "private" then you don't go, which is easy enough for me and anyone else. The other problem is finding out who actually owns the land, as we know landowners could live miles away and i'm not even sure how or who to start with. Did i mentionthe beaurocracy here, you need paperwork just for the paperwork, then it gets filed until the next chimp in the next room gets around to it.

Anyhow, i said i wanted to do this correctly and it's still the same, there are woods near Dachau which i'll start off in as i'm sure those won't be owned by any one person, but while i'm around there i'll look to see if i can chat to anyone (landowner) about permission and see what occurs.

I'll also have to try and find 1 or 2 others in Munich who go detecting and possibly a German detecting forum who can explain the ins and outs of detecting here.

[azda 979]

Just found this

GERMANY

The 1992 law on the search for, and preservation of antiquities, covers all objects belonging to the ancient period, early Christianity and the Middle Ages.

Excavation requires a licence and work may not be carried out, without permission, near an antiquity in such a way as to affect it directly or indirectly. All accidental discoveries must be reported. Rewards are made equal to 50% of value if found on public land and 100% if on private land

Although the 1932 Act does not refer to metal detectors, any items found by its use are covered by the Act.

Sounds more like archeology though

[Colin G. 147]

Reading through a German detecting forum, it was apparently better NOT to ask as you're only going to get a rejection anyway. Its been said also that if there's a gate and it says "private" then you don't go, which is easy enough for me and anyone else. The other problem is finding out who actually owns the land, as we know landowners could live miles away and i'm not even sure how or who to start with. Did i mentionthe beaurocracy here, you need paperwork just for the paperwork, then it gets filed until the next chimp in the next room gets around to it.

Anyhow, i said i wanted to do this correctly and it's still the same, there are woods near Dachau which i'll start off in as i'm sure those won't be owned by any one person, but while i'm around there i'll look to see if i can chat to anyone (landowner) about permission and see what occurs.

I'll also have to try and find 1 or 2 others in Munich who go detecting and possibly a German detecting forum who can explain the ins and outs of detecting here.

That sounds like a decent start, we get detectorists in the UK saying you will never get permission from a certain land owner, but some people do. Some people just seem to be able to communicate with landowners and others don't. I struggle to get permission on land whereas my detecting buddy seems to be able to get access almost anywhere, he is older and a bit less "rough" looking

You will never know until you ask, and don't be put off by being knocked back, it is a bit weird at first but once someone has said no, the next time you hear it, it gets easier!!

Walking land close by will usually result in you chatting to people who will normally know who the landowner is