Dating an old boxes containing 1797 pattern pennies

[Cristatus 3]

I have just bought a set of 3*1797 pattern pennies in an old box. I would like to try and date the box. If anyone thinks they can help I can send photos. The box is covered in snake/reptil skin - very small scales. It seems to be wood and very light. The box is lined with what I think is silk. The coins sit snuggly in what seem to be purpose made holes. The box is lozenge shape and has a long mostly concealed hinge and two hook and eye clasps. The best clue I have is that the clasps are almost identicle to those on a contempoarary box I have with the Victoria coronation medal in - although this box is leather covered. The coins themselves are not restrikes, one is an early soho and the other two are late soho. Is there anyone who thinks they can help? My only conclusion so far is the box could be at least as old as 1838 due to the similarity with the coronation box but I would like to understand if it could be earlier. As the exact dates of the late soho period seem to be uncertain I am guessing the box would not be earlier than 1805 but I guess it could be much later than 1838 in the Victorian period also.

[Accumulator 52]

I have just bought a set of 3*1797 pattern pennies in an old box. I would like to try and date the box. If anyone thinks they can help I can send photos. The box is covered in snake/reptil skin - very small scales. It seems to be wood and very light. The box is lined with what I think is silk. The coins sit snuggly in what seem to be purpose made holes. The box is lozenge shape and has a long mostly concealed hinge and two hook and eye clasps. The best clue I have is that the clasps are almost identicle to those on a contempoarary box I have with the Victoria coronation medal in - although this box is leather covered. The coins themselves are not restrikes, one is an early soho and the other two are late soho. Is there anyone who thinks they can help? My only conclusion so far is the box could be at least as old as 1838 due to the similarity with the coronation box but I would like to understand if it could be earlier. As the exact dates of the late soho period seem to be uncertain I am guessing the box would not be earlier than 1805 but I guess it could be much later than 1838 in the Victorian period also.

Hi, I don't own one and I don't have a photo, but the 1797 proofs were produced as a set of three (gilt, silvered & bronze) in a custom-made box. It sounds like what you are describing, but with the coins having been swapped? Are you sure they are patterns, not proofs? Photos would be really useful.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Accumulator

[Accumulator 52]

Actually, I could be wrong in as much as the set was perhaps Gilt/Copper/Bronze, though this may have varied. here's a pic of a recent eBay sale (nastily cleaned gilt example though):

[Rob 3,152]

The main problem here is that if it was a privately commissioned box and not a Soho product, then it would be almost impossible to date based on the box design, which presumably would be at the whim of the person having the work done and the location. A combination of early and late Soho pieces suggests a later assembly date than time of issue, unless Peck is wrong with the chronology and these particular types were issued concurrently.

What is the contents of this box and how does it compare with other examples? i.e. is there any consistency of contents which would lead you to deduce that the types were issued concurrently? We know that 'Late Soho' is a fairly elastic term covering a prolonged period as the DH11 halfpennies ascribed to it show a degree of recutting, with some Peck numbers showing early strikes only. The silvered P964 for example is early, whereas the P966 brown gilt is later.

[bagerap 706]

When you say very small scales, it is possible the it is Shagreen, which is prepared sharkskin. It was a popular covering late 18th- mid 19th century and is fantastically hard wearing. Some examples still look pristine after 200 years. Colours at that time were usually in the green and blue scales, red is very rare.

A photo of the box and in particular the hinges may help to date it.