CGS - A customer-facing business?

[azda 979]

I paid £30 for the 30 day turnaround

[FALL9797 0]

What worries me is the expectation that slabbing a coin increases its value. Why? It's the same coin whether slabbed or raw.

I think that to a certain extent that is just a marketing ploy pushed by the grading companies to make the punters believe that the cost of slabbing can be immediately offset from the perceived gain.

From my experience of Graded Coins (I am told there are over 20 'grading companies' in the USA in addition to PCGS and NGC) there is undoubtedly hype and pressure to get coins graded. One could almost suggest that in North America that collectors are buying graded coins by US firms because of peer pressure. If you want to make top dollar for a coin in North America - get it graded. I have seen British Coins for sale in NGC and PCGS capsules in the USA at prices that far exceed what Spink (and indeed most UK Catalogues) would suggest - especially scarcer/rarer items (I am fortunate to visit the USA often on business).

I believe that my collection will realise a better price having been graded by CGS. Many will not agree and that is fine by me - fifteen years ago grading of coins in North America was seldom done. Now it is the norm. Perhaps if I survive another twenty years the UK and rest of Europe may follow suit or I may just be a lonely voice in the crowd of people preferring ungraded coins.

Bill you mentioned that there was some sort of meeting this weekend with the CGS boys and girls. So how did it go and what was their answers to the questions raised on here?

The meeting went well (not as many as I would have like) but a variety of presentations including a very informative one by Steve Lockett on how CGS arrive at the values they place on graded coins. The notes of presentations and discussions will appear on the CGS Forum website within two weeks.

I did raise the matter of the 'car park' exchange and the 'lousy customer service'. There was much scratching of head over the first point in that exchanges of coins and discussions have taken place in car parks as a result of time pressures. I was assured that people deliver to their offices on almost a daily basis (apart from couriers and post office). Even with appointments promises on timings sometimes get compromised and time is snatched when about to go elsewhere or returning from somewhere. If there is a significant piece of business to conduct (for example when I may deliver 50 or more coins for grading) they prefer an appointment so that they can check my submission and give me a receipt before I leave. Going back to the head scratching, no specific instance stood out but anyone who is unhappy with such an arrangement can ask to go to their offices or be invited to return when time pressures are not as great.

The comment on poor customer service was taken on board and training will be undertaken to ensure such a conversation should not happen again. An interesting observation was made to me that I have some sympathy for - normally if you get poor customer service it would be right to take it up with a Manager. When I telephone a well known mobile telephone operation (which I have done from time to time) I just ask to speak to a manager at the outset so that matters can be properly resolved. CGS does accept coins being delivered to its offices (and if there are a lot of them it is as well to book an appointment). For myself I am content with their pricing as I think the results of their service are first class (and are cheaper than the main north American companies).

Unfortunately I did raise the question of how much does it cost to actually go through the CGS process and then encapsulate a coin and I suspect the margins out of £11.99 are very minimal indeed. This may lead to an upward review of prices during the course of this year.

Dear Bill.

I have specifically joined to talk to you.

I have been collecting since I was 9yrs old. I am now 39. I have access to a vast amount of coins from my collection and a close friends collection some I guarantee would take your breath away. Recently my dad found the Mule 20p and handed it to me. This was one of the only coins that he had given to me so with out thinking did a search to find how to capsulate. CGS sprang up.

After a fraught bit of arguing with Royal Pain in the arse Mail for 'Loosing' a Special delivery my mule was found and it made its way to CGS. After becoming familiar with the site I signed up with the thought of not just sending the mule but including a fair BU and Choice UN coins from the collections.

As soon as I checked the CGS site ( the hour after I rang to confirm it was there) I noticed it was on a Grading Level 2 not 1 . OK it's a good mule.

The Manager who's name is SC [i'm sure you know who] had spoken to me on a few occasions. A bit of a stern woman as managers go however I'm a customer and thought she was rather lacking in customer service. Time passes, one week goes, The four week arrives.

So I email SC and get no where due to the second level grader just arriving back from over seas business and she gives me the information I can already see on the CGS site.

On the 03.02.14 I ring just to get a bit of news on my coin as I was hoping to get this back to take on a trip to my dad's. WELL!!! The mouthful I received of the female manager was outrageous yelling and balling " I have given you the information' all the while I am calm and asking why she is talking to me like this and asking her to calm down. I had no defence. I couldn't get one in?

After all the trying to ask for my info I was met with a threat. 'This coin I am sending this back to you (Overseas possibly polish ascent)' with even more anger. So the phone went down.

After five minutes of shock I got a call back from her simply with ' I'm getting your coin finalised and posted in a couple of days' Phone down? Now a few weeks ago I was at a fair that CGS were at and met the owner SL in a fleeting question and can remember his voice as I also looked at the video on line from YouTube coinweek channel , - Coin Auctions & Third Party Grading in Great Britain - THE LONDON COIN FAIR.

So I rang back, wanting to talk to him and he picks up...Result. However it is him but not him as he confirmed he was not there. - are you with me guys....I explained that I was not happy about the way the 'woman' spoke to me and basically he confirmed he had heard it all saying' She emailed you the information' ABRUPTLY and ending with 'You know I have not giving this anymore thought' and slammed the phone down.

CGS failed me on a 20p mule and have missed out on a revenue of possible £5-6 thousand pounds they are not worth the time. if they can treat a first time customer like that then all the tea in china would not make me recommend them in the future. In fact the idea of a rival Grading Company is quite appealing.

My opinion on why there is a high amount of turnaround is money. Not the expertise simply money. If you send a high value coin the turn around is in one week, My mule even though a lower value should have the same amount of care and customer service an any other client. This is backed up with the fact that the money was taken out of my account as soon as it arrived with them.

As you have direct access please by all means show them this. Good practice is a thankless task but bad goes along way. Further than some may imagine.

It seems that matter of customer service is a bit pointless after you have met either be it before or after my little tussle with them. and I was speaking to the manage and the owner.

[FALL9797 0]

What worries me is the expectation that slabbing a coin increases its value. Why? It's the same coin whether slabbed or raw.

I think that to a certain extent that is just a marketing ploy pushed by the grading companies to make the punters believe that the cost of slabbing can be immediately offset from the perceived gain.

From my experience of Graded Coins (I am told there are over 20 'grading companies' in the USA in addition to PCGS and NGC) there is undoubtedly hype and pressure to get coins graded. One could almost suggest that in North America that collectors are buying graded coins by US firms because of peer pressure. If you want to make top dollar for a coin in North America - get it graded. I have seen British Coins for sale in NGC and PCGS capsules in the USA at prices that far exceed what Spink (and indeed most UK Catalogues) would suggest - especially scarcer/rarer items (I am fortunate to visit the USA often on business).

I believe that my collection will realise a better price having been graded by CGS. Many will not agree and that is fine by me - fifteen years ago grading of coins in North America was seldom done. Now it is the norm. Perhaps if I survive another twenty years the UK and rest of Europe may follow suit or I may just be a lonely voice in the crowd of people preferring ungraded coins.

Bill you mentioned that there was some sort of meeting this weekend with the CGS boys and girls. So how did it go and what was their answers to the questions raised on here?

The meeting went well (not as many as I would have like) but a variety of presentations including a very informative one by Steve Lockett on how CGS arrive at the values they place on graded coins. The notes of presentations and discussions will appear on the CGS Forum website within two weeks.

I did raise the matter of the 'car park' exchange and the 'lousy customer service'. There was much scratching of head over the first point in that exchanges of coins and discussions have taken place in car parks as a result of time pressures. I was assured that people deliver to their offices on almost a daily basis (apart from couriers and post office). Even with appointments promises on timings sometimes get compromised and time is snatched when about to go elsewhere or returning from somewhere. If there is a significant piece of business to conduct (for example when I may deliver 50 or more coins for grading) they prefer an appointment so that they can check my submission and give me a receipt before I leave. Going back to the head scratching, no specific instance stood out but anyone who is unhappy with such an arrangement can ask to go to their offices or be invited to return when time pressures are not as great.

The comment on poor customer service was taken on board and training will be undertaken to ensure such a conversation should not happen again. An interesting observation was made to me that I have some sympathy for - normally if you get poor customer service it would be right to take it up with a Manager. When I telephone a well known mobile telephone operation (which I have done from time to time) I just ask to speak to a manager at the outset so that matters can be properly resolved. CGS does accept coins being delivered to its offices (and if there are a lot of them it is as well to book an appointment). For myself I am content with their pricing as I think the results of their service are first class (and are cheaper than the main north American companies).

Unfortunately I did raise the question of how much does it cost to actually go through the CGS process and then encapsulate a coin and I suspect the margins out of £11.99 are very minimal indeed. This may lead to an upward review of prices during the course of this year.

Dear Bill.

I have specifically joined to talk to you.

I have been collecting since I was 9yrs old. I am now 39. I have access to a vast amount of coins from my collection and a close friends collection some I guarantee would take your breath away. Recently my dad found the Mule 20p and handed it to me. This was one of the only coins that he had given to me so with out thinking did a search to find how to capsulate. CGS sprang up.

After a fraught bit of arguing with Royal Pain in the arse Mail for 'Loosing' a Special delivery my mule was found and it made its way to CGS. After becoming familiar with the site I signed up with the thought of not just sending the mule but including a fair BU and Choice UN coins from the collections.

As soon as I checked the CGS site ( the hour after I rang to confirm it was there) I noticed it was on a Grading Level 2 not 1 . OK it's a good mule.

The Manager who's name is SC [i'm sure you know who] had spoken to me on a few occasions. A bit of a stern woman as managers go however I'm a customer and thought she was rather lacking in customer service. Time passes, one week goes, The four week arrives.

So I email SC and get no where due to the second level grader just arriving back from over seas business and she gives me the information I can already see on the CGS site.

On the 03.02.14 I ring just to get a bit of news on my coin as I was hoping to get this back to take on a trip to my dad's. WELL!!! The mouthful I received of the female manager was outrageous yelling and balling " I have given you the information' all the while I am calm and asking why she is talking to me like this and asking her to calm down. I had no defence. I couldn't get one in?

After all the trying to ask for my info I was met with a threat. 'This coin I am sending this back to you (Overseas possibly polish ascent)' with even more anger. So the phone went down.

After five minutes of shock I got a call back from her simply with ' I'm getting your coin finalised and posted in a couple of days' Phone down? Now a few weeks ago I was at a fair that CGS were at and met the owner SL in a fleeting question and can remember his voice as I also looked at the video on line from YouTube coinweek channel , - Coin Auctions & Third Party Grading in Great Britain - THE LONDON COIN FAIR.

So I rang back, wanting to talk to him and he picks up...Result. However it is him but not him as he confirmed he was not there. - are you with me guys....I explained that I was not happy about the way the 'woman' spoke to me and basically he confirmed he had heard it all saying' She emailed you the information' ABRUPTLY and ending with 'You know I have not giving this anymore thought' and slammed the phone down.

CGS failed me on a 20p mule and have missed out on a revenue of possible £5-6 thousand pounds they are not worth the time. if they can treat a first time customer like that then all the tea in china would not make me recommend them in the future. In fact the idea of a rival Grading Company is quite appealing.

My opinion on why there is a high amount of turnaround is money. Not the expertise simply money. If you send a high value coin the turn around is in one week, My mule even though a lower value should have the same amount of care and customer service an any other client. This is backed up with the fact that the money was taken out of my account as soon as it arrived with them.

As you have direct access please by all means show them this. Good practice is a thankless task but bad goes along way. Further than some may imagine.

It seems that matter of customer service is a bit pointless after you have met either be it before or after my little tussle with them. and I was speaking to the manage and the owner.

It has just arrived.

LOOK AT THE STATE OF THIS. IT IS NOT EVEN SET STRAIGHT. I'M SO ANGRY AND UPSET. NO ONE WILL ANSWER MY EMAILS OR MOBILE.

THE WONDERFUL CGS. DON'T MAKE A MISTAKE AND SEND THEM ANYTHING.

[Accumulator 52]

Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately Bill Pugsley hasn't visited for a while. I've never used CGS but I'm sure you'll get a few useful responses from other members.

I can understand why you're frustrated, based on what you have said and on the photos, but feel I should point out that a 20p mule isn't a £5,000 - £6,000 coin (if that's what you meant), but worth around £40 - £60. This shouldn't make any difference to the service you receive, but it's important that you aren't mis-led about its value.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Accumulator

[rpeddie 119]

CGS failed me on a 20p mule and have missed out on a revenue of possible £5-6 thousand pounds they are not worth the time.

Think he meant that because they were so rubbish(i myself waited 60 days each time for return) that he will not be sending any of the rest of his collection to be graded.

As a slab fan myself and after looking for other alternatives i use NGC now(didn't realize they had european sites thank you BRG ).

[FALL9797 0]

Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately Bill Pugsley hasn't visited for a while. I've never used CGS but I'm sure you'll get a few useful responses from other members.

I can understand why you're frustrated, based on what you have said and on the photos, but feel I should point out that a 20p mule isn't a £5,000 - £6,000 coin (if that's what you meant), but worth around £40 - £60. This shouldn't make any difference to the service you receive, but it's important that you aren't mis-led about its value.

No sorry if that's how it reads. The value as is now £110. My point was it should not make a difference to customer service whether the coin is worth X amount, but they have missed out on my future dealings as it could of totalled to the £1000's.

[FALL9797 0]

CGS failed me on a 20p mule and have missed out on a revenue of possible £5-6 thousand pounds they are not worth the time.

Think he meant that because they were so rubbish(i myself waited 60 days each time for return) that he will not be sending any of the rest of his collection to be graded.

As a slab fan myself and after looking for other alternatives i use NGC now(didn't realize they had european sites thank you BRG ).

CORRECT.

NGC How do you find them.?

Lee

[Peter 615]

Can of worms being opened.

Why slab in the 1st place?

The mule 20p looked AUNC and is as described.

Most of us here break coins out of their plastic coffins.

[FALL9797 0]

Can of worms being opened.

Why slab in the 1st place?

The mule 20p looked AUNC and is as described.

Most of us here break coins out of their plastic coffins.

The coin is very sentimental and wanted it graded and looking spanking for prosperity. I wish I had not even looked at CGS...it is on going. I hope they go out of business.....

[Accumulator 52]

Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately Bill Pugsley hasn't visited for a while. I've never used CGS but I'm sure you'll get a few useful responses from other members.

I can understand why you're frustrated, based on what you have said and on the photos, but feel I should point out that a 20p mule isn't a £5,000 - £6,000 coin (if that's what you meant), but worth around £40 - £60. This shouldn't make any difference to the service you receive, but it's important that you aren't mis-led about its value.

No sorry if that's how it reads. The value as is now £110. My point was it should not make a difference to customer service whether the coin is worth X amount, but they have missed out on my future dealings as it could of totalled to the £1000's.

No problem Lee. Just wanted to make sure as we've all seen mules listed on eBay for ludicrous four figure sums. I sat in the room at London Coins auction last Sunday and watched about ten of them pass across the block at £35-80 a time (dependent upon grade), so that's about the value right now.

I do share your frustration at CGS. They really need to take their business seriously or they're just going to be sidelined.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Accumulator

[FALL9797 0]

Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately Bill Pugsley hasn't visited for a while. I've never used CGS but I'm sure you'll get a few useful responses from other members.

I can understand why you're frustrated, based on what you have said and on the photos, but feel I should point out that a 20p mule isn't a £5,000 - £6,000 coin (if that's what you meant), but worth around £40 - £60. This shouldn't make any difference to the service you receive, but it's important that you aren't mis-led about its value.

No sorry if that's how it reads. The value as is now £110. My point was it should not make a difference to customer service whether the coin is worth X amount, but they have missed out on my future dealings as it could of totalled to the £1000's.

No problem Lee. Just wanted to make sure as we've all seen mules listed on eBay for ludicrous four figure sums. I sat in the room at London Coins auction last Sunday and watched about ten of them pass across the block at £35-80 a time (dependent upon grade), so that's about the value right now.

I do share your frustration at CGS. They really need to take their business seriously or they're just going to be sidelined.

Thing is..I'm having serious doubts on the coin. I can remember certain aspects and I'm sure I took pictures. They are just disgraceful in how they treat customers and all Steven Levitt / Lovett?? is after is your cash. Nuts to the customer.

[Peckris 579]

Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately Bill Pugsley hasn't visited for a while. I've never used CGS but I'm sure you'll get a few useful responses from other members.

I can understand why you're frustrated, based on what you have said and on the photos, but feel I should point out that a 20p mule isn't a £5,000 - £6,000 coin (if that's what you meant), but worth around £40 - £60. This shouldn't make any difference to the service you receive, but it's important that you aren't mis-led about its value.

No sorry if that's how it reads. The value as is now £110. My point was it should not make a difference to customer service whether the coin is worth X amount, but they have missed out on my future dealings as it could of totalled to the £1000's.

No problem Lee. Just wanted to make sure as we've all seen mules listed on eBay for ludicrous four figure sums. I sat in the room at London Coins auction last Sunday and watched about ten of them pass across the block at £35-80 a time (dependent upon grade), so that's about the value right now.

I do share your frustration at CGS. They really need to take their business seriously or they're just going to be sidelined.

Thing is..I'm having serious doubts on the coin. I can remember certain aspects and I'm sure I took pictures. They are just disgraceful in how they treat customers and all Steven Levitt / Lovett?? is after is your cash. Nuts to the customer.

Stephen Lockett. The sad thing is, he was ok as a dealer when I met him at the Midland 15 years ago or so.

Personally, I would forget all about slabbing. It's a colossal waste of time and money. You have the coins - invest in a decent coin cabinet and you will save yourself ££££££££'s in the long run.

[mhcoins 95]

Very interesting topic...

In my opinion and I hope not to offend anyone but the whole point of having any coin "graded" would be too increase it's value and unfortunately there is no alternative than PCGS or NGC for doing this. I've made this comment before on a previous thread but CGS have alienated themselves by using a different grading scale.

This craze of super high prices being paid for slabbed ms65, etc grade coins, is extremely strong on the international market. I can't really see a US or Japanese buyer paying £30,000 for a CGS slabbed gothic crown for example, yet they regularly do for NGC and PCGS specimens. The only place where a CGS coin will excel is at a London coins sale. Therefore using the CGS's service,because they are "cheaper" could well be a huge mistake when it becomes time to sell your beloved collection.

I personally feel that the CGS slabs look rather cheap. If they could improve their branding and presentation maybe they would attract a larger audience.

[Rob 3,152]

I'm not sure that the number of people who swear by slabbing is increasing any faster as a percentage than the number of collectors. CGS are essentially trying to take a share of the PCGS/NGC market from 0% at inception to whatever their aim is. There will always be adherents to slabbing, but for most collectors there simply isn't any reason to go down that route as the largest group of collectors do not collect high grade material (thank god). Whilst you cannot criticise CGS or anyone else for trying to set up a business in order to relieve customers of their hard earned cash, the cost of slabbing is prohibitve for anything less than a hundred quid or so, requiring the projected increase in value to be self-fulfilling. All it does is add inflationary pressures to the prices asked by dealers, and all to pay for someone to say a coin is what you say it is and is graded such and such.

Slab presentation can't be that important as PCGS and NGC slabs are very different, yet both are successful. In my view PCGS ones are better, as the thin rim around the edge allows for easier removal and access to the contents (CGS slabs are as good as PCGS for getting in), but that doesn't explain the preferences of those who like slabbed coins. US slabs are successful because they allow collectors and dealers to buy and sell coins, sight unseen, leading to a more vibrant collector base and better or at least more numerous suppliers. Anybody with a thirst for knowledge is bu**ered however, as original thought over what it is and how good it is are incompatible with the superior knowledge of the 'experts'.

The crazy prices for high number slabs are here to stay as long as you have plenty of money sloshing around the system and a collector/investor base who question nothing.

[Peckris 579]

Very interesting topic...

In my opinion and I hope not to offend anyone but the whole point of having any coin "graded" would be too increase it's value and unfortunately there is no alternative than PCGS or NGC for doing this. I've made this comment before on a previous thread but CGS have alienated themselves by using a different grading scale.

This craze of super high prices being paid for slabbed ms65, etc grade coins, is extremely strong on the international market. I can't really see a US or Japanese buyer paying £30,000 for a CGS slabbed gothic crown for example, yet they regularly do for NGC and PCGS specimens. The only place where a CGS coin will excel is at a London coins sale. Therefore using the CGS's service,because they are "cheaper" could well be a huge mistake when it becomes time to sell your beloved collection.

I personally feel that the CGS slabs look rather cheap. If they could improve their branding and presentation maybe they would attract a larger audience.

The logical conclusion from that is, if you regard coin collecting as an investment and are particularly concerned to see a "big profit" on your investment, then slab when you are ready to sell and not before. If that time is decades off, and slabbing has gone out of fashion by then, you won't be making any expensive mistakes.

[jaggy 528]

Very interesting topic...

In my opinion and I hope not to offend anyone but the whole point of having any coin "graded" would be too increase it's value and unfortunately there is no alternative than PCGS or NGC for doing this. I've made this comment before on a previous thread but CGS have alienated themselves by using a different grading scale.

This craze of super high prices being paid for slabbed ms65, etc grade coins, is extremely strong on the international market. I can't really see a US or Japanese buyer paying £30,000 for a CGS slabbed gothic crown for example, yet they regularly do for NGC and PCGS specimens. The only place where a CGS coin will excel is at a London coins sale. Therefore using the CGS's service,because they are "cheaper" could well be a huge mistake when it becomes time to sell your beloved collection.

I personally feel that the CGS slabs look rather cheap. If they could improve their branding and presentation maybe they would attract a larger audience.

The logical conclusion from that is, if you regard coin collecting as an investment and are particularly concerned to see a "big profit" on your investment, then slab when you are ready to sell and not before. If that time is decades off, and slabbing has gone out of fashion by then, you won't be making any expensive mistakes.

I agree with this. Slabbing is all about protecting or enhancing investment value. As a collector, I buy the coin and not the slab. At the recent London Coins auction there were several cases of similar coins being sold; one in a slab and the other raw. Because it is the coin I want, I am not willing to pay a premium for a slab.

I do have some slabbed coins, usually bought from Heritage. I haven't 'un-slabbed' them but I didn't pay a premium for them either.

[Nordle11 564]

I also agree with jaggy in that I'd never pay extra just because a coin is slabbed. In fact I'd want to pay less for it because I know I'd have to spend time trying to prise it from it's tomb..

[Accumulator 52]

Very interesting topic...

In my opinion and I hope not to offend anyone but the whole point of having any coin "graded" would be too increase it's value and unfortunately there is no alternative than PCGS or NGC for doing this. I've made this comment before on a previous thread but CGS have alienated themselves by using a different grading scale.

This craze of super high prices being paid for slabbed ms65, etc grade coins, is extremely strong on the international market. I can't really see a US or Japanese buyer paying £30,000 for a CGS slabbed gothic crown for example, yet they regularly do for NGC and PCGS specimens. The only place where a CGS coin will excel is at a London coins sale. Therefore using the CGS's service,because they are "cheaper" could well be a huge mistake when it becomes time to sell your beloved collection.

I personally feel that the CGS slabs look rather cheap. If they could improve their branding and presentation maybe they would attract a larger audience.

The logical conclusion from that is, if you regard coin collecting as an investment and are particularly concerned to see a "big profit" on your investment, then slab when you are ready to sell and not before. If that time is decades off, and slabbing has gone out of fashion by then, you won't be making any expensive mistakes.

That makes complete sense. I have no intention of slabbing my coins for my own benefit, but would certainly consider this if I was planning to dispose of the entire collection (I'm not).

Virtually all Heritage's coins are sold in slabs which, from their point of view, passes a good deal of the responsibility for grading, attribution, condition etc. to a third party and must significantly reduce their liability.

Moderators: If possible, could we move this thread to the new TPG discussion area?

Edited March 7, 2014 by Accumulator

[jaggy 528]

Most Heritage's coins are sold in slabs because that is what the American market demands. And Heritage operate primarily in the American market.

I had an interesting chat with a man from Bonhams (a main Board member to boot). His perspective is that coins have done well recently because they are perceived as a store of value rather than as a 'collectible'. That means there are a great many 'investors' as opposed to 'collectors'. Investors will not have the same level of knowledge and expertise as collectors because their aim is to either protect asset values or increase them. Thus, they look to slabbing as a means of giving them assurance that what they are buying is what it is and as a means of protecting that value.

For those who prefer slabbing, the mistake I think CGS are making is not adopting the US standard when it comes to grading. That locks them out of a US market which recognises NGC & PCGS grading. And the market in the UK which, I think, still prefers raw is too small for them.

[TomGoodheart 401]

Moderators: If possible, could we move this thread to the new TPG discussion area?

Done.

[azda 979]

Oooooh my favourite topic. So where is this NGC site, do they have a European grading house? I was thinking of shipping to PCGS in Paris as i'd previously read their site and last year if you joined at their top membership Level of €125 you could get 8 free gradings, they've now changed this and it costs €69 to join and €45 per coin plus €10 handling fee and then shipping back to you which needs to actually be arranged with PCGS as they don't normally ship. So all in all it can get expensive, and the costs need to be weighed up.

So dös NGC have a European office and website?

[azda 979]

Most Heritage's coins are sold in slabs because that is what the American market demands. And Heritage operate primarily in the American market.

I had an interesting chat with a man from Bonhams (a main Board member to boot). His perspective is that coins have done well recently because they are perceived as a store of value rather than as a 'collectible'. That means there are a great many 'investors' as opposed to 'collectors'. Investors will not have the same level of knowledge and expertise as collectors because their aim is to either protect asset values or increase them. Thus, they look to slabbing as a means of giving them assurance that what they are buying is what it is and as a means of protecting that value.

For those who prefer slabbing, the mistake I think CGS are making is not adopting the US standard when it comes to grading. That locks them out of a US market which recognises NGC & PCGS grading. And the market in the UK which, I think, still prefers raw is too small for them.

Surely Investors in these sort of markets have people who do know how the coin market works. I would'nt go out and purchase shares to invest in as i woul'nt know which company is doing well and which is'nt, so in that respect, if they have that sort of wedge to Play with they'll also have people with Knowledge buying for them

[rpeddie 119]

http://www.ngccoin.co.uk

they have sites in zurich and munich

i am thinking of sending some over as soon as this ebay mess is sorted out

[jaggy 528]

Most Heritage's coins are sold in slabs because that is what the American market demands. And Heritage operate primarily in the American market.

I had an interesting chat with a man from Bonhams (a main Board member to boot). His perspective is that coins have done well recently because they are perceived as a store of value rather than as a 'collectible'. That means there are a great many 'investors' as opposed to 'collectors'. Investors will not have the same level of knowledge and expertise as collectors because their aim is to either protect asset values or increase them. Thus, they look to slabbing as a means of giving them assurance that what they are buying is what it is and as a means of protecting that value.

For those who prefer slabbing, the mistake I think CGS are making is not adopting the US standard when it comes to grading. That locks them out of a US market which recognises NGC & PCGS grading. And the market in the UK which, I think, still prefers raw is too small for them.

Surely Investors in these sort of markets have people who do know how the coin market works. I would'nt go out and purchase shares to invest in as i woul'nt know which company is doing well and which is'nt, so in that respect, if they have that sort of wedge to Play with they'll also have people with Knowledge buying for them

I'm sure they do. But the third party grading gives extra assurance. A bit like the independent auditors report on the company you are buying shares in.

[Gary D 76]

Most Heritage's coins are sold in slabs because that is what the American market demands. And Heritage operate primarily in the American market.

I had an interesting chat with a man from Bonhams (a main Board member to boot). His perspective is that coins have done well recently because they are perceived as a store of value rather than as a 'collectible'. That means there are a great many 'investors' as opposed to 'collectors'. Investors will not have the same level of knowledge and expertise as collectors because their aim is to either protect asset values or increase them. Thus, they look to slabbing as a means of giving them assurance that what they are buying is what it is and as a means of protecting that value.

For those who prefer slabbing, the mistake I think CGS are making is not adopting the US standard when it comes to grading. That locks them out of a US market which recognises NGC & PCGS grading. And the market in the UK which, I think, still prefers raw is too small for them.

Surely Investors in these sort of markets have people who do know how the coin market works. I would'nt go out and purchase shares to invest in as i woul'nt know which company is doing well and which is'nt, so in that respect, if they have that sort of wedge to Play with they'll also have people with Knowledge buying for them

From my experience and a sample of one, investors will hold a portfolio of coins with an investment company. It's a bit like a pension scheme where you pay money to a company who buys shares on your behalf, you probably don't know what share they hold on your behalf. I bought a maundy set from the US I assume from a widow who was selling her deceased husbands portfolio. The set came with a certificate that stated the value of the slabbed set of coins. From memory it was about $400, I paid under $200.