Clashed dies

[pies 33]

Read a fair bit about this but what exactly has happened i would have thought isf the dies had hit each other they would have been seriously damaged

[Nick 329]

Read a fair bit about this but what exactly has happened i would have thought isf the dies had hit each other they would have been seriously damaged

It occurs when the dies are struck together without a blank in between. You'd have thought it would be catastrophic but it seems that they survive pretty well, leaving just an impression of one on the other. Clashed dies are extremely numerous on pre-Jubilee Victorian coins, especially the smaller denominations.

[Colin G. 147]

Read a fair bit about this but what exactly has happened i would have thought isf the dies had hit each other they would have been seriously damaged

It occurs when the dies are struck together without a blank in between. You'd have thought it would be catastrophic but it seems that they survive pretty well, leaving just an impression of one on the other. Clashed dies are extremely numerous on pre-Jubilee Victorian coins, especially the smaller denominations.

This is an 1840 farthing (2 prong trident) variety that is struck from clashed dies, this variety always has the clash evident and it is very clear.

[Nick 329]

And here is a picture showing a die clashed 1839 shilling reverse with a composite showing both sides merged together to show where the outline of the obverse design might be expected to appear on the reverse.

[Rob 3,152]

When the dies were hardened prior to use, it is quite realistic to expect a degree of inconsistency in the hardening process (slightly different temperatures or times). Therefore, you will most likely have a slight difference in the hardness of the two dies leading to the harder one leaving an impression on the softer of the two in the event of them coming together.

[Gary 7]

And here is a picture showing a die clashed 1839 shilling reverse with a composite showing both sides merged together to show where the outline of the obverse design might be expected to appear on the reverse.

nice coin Nick.

[Peckris 579]

Read a fair bit about this but what exactly has happened i would have thought isf the dies had hit each other they would have been seriously damaged

It occurs when the dies are struck together without a blank in between. You'd have thought it would be catastrophic but it seems that they survive pretty well, leaving just an impression of one on the other. Clashed dies are extremely numerous on pre-Jubilee Victorian coins, especially the smaller denominations.

Well, if you think about it, there are no raised surfaces involved so only the perfectly flat (field) sections meet each other. The apparent 'clash' is simply the faint impression of the perimeter of the recessed area on an equivalent flat field area on the other die. Where two recessed areas meet, nothing happens.

[Peter 615]

Read a fair bit about this but what exactly has happened i would have thought isf the dies had hit each other they would have been seriously damaged

It occurs when the dies are struck together without a blank in between. You'd have thought it would be catastrophic but it seems that they survive pretty well, leaving just an impression of one on the other. Clashed dies are extremely numerous on pre-Jubilee Victorian coins, especially the smaller denominations.

This is an 1840 farthing (2 prong trident) variety that is struck from clashed dies, this variety always has the clash evident and it is very clear.

That is the best example I have seen. I have an example.Colin Cooke stated he had only seen 3 in 25 years.

There was one on Ebay the other night and several of us knew what it was.The seller must of been shocked as it was a 99p coin without the clash.

This is mine.

http://www.omnicoin.com/coin/947669

I'm happy with mine and have no intention to improve it.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Peter

[1949threepence 3,367]

Some evidence of clashed dies on the obverse of this F66:-

[Peckris 579]

Some evidence of clashed dies on the obverse of this F66:-

Is that clashing or ghosting? I have a 1799 halfpenny with similar effect:

There appears to be a mirror image of the olive branch below Britannia's outstretched arm, but I believe it's ghosting from the obverse.

[1949threepence 3,367]

Some evidence of clashed dies on the obverse of this F66:-

Is that clashing or ghosting? I have a 1799 halfpenny with similar effect:

There appears to be a mirror image of the olive branch below Britannia's outstretched arm, but I believe it's ghosting from the obverse.

It may be on yours, Peck. I'm not an expert on these things. But I'm tending to think mine is a genuine die clash. Interestingly, if you look at the same coin in hand, there is considerable evidence of actual ghosting on the reverse, in the same way you see it on many George V pennies and other coins. Victoria's bun can clearly be seen, although this more "traditional" ghosting can't be seen on the pic.

[Rob 3,152]

Both are clashed dies.

[RLC35 288]

Some evidence of clashed dies on the obverse of this F66:-

Is that clashing or ghosting? I have a 1799 halfpenny with similar effect:

There appears to be a mirror image of the olive branch below Britannia's outstretched arm, but I believe it's ghosting from the obverse.

It may be on yours, Peck. I'm not an expert on these things. But I'm tending to think mine is a genuine die clash. Interestingly, if you look at the same coin in hand, there is considerable evidence of actual ghosting on the reverse, in the same way you see it on many George V pennies and other coins. Victoria's bun can clearly be seen, although this more "traditional" ghosting can't be seen on the pic.

It is a die clash. On the obverse you can see Britannia's knees impressed under the Queens chin, and on the reverse you can see the Queens profile to the right of the trident.

[1949threepence 3,367]

Some evidence of clashed dies on the obverse of this F66:-

Is that clashing or ghosting? I have a 1799 halfpenny with similar effect:

There appears to be a mirror image of the olive branch below Britannia's outstretched arm, but I believe it's ghosting from the obverse.

It may be on yours, Peck. I'm not an expert on these things. But I'm tending to think mine is a genuine die clash. Interestingly, if you look at the same coin in hand, there is considerable evidence of actual ghosting on the reverse, in the same way you see it on many George V pennies and other coins. Victoria's bun can clearly be seen, although this more "traditional" ghosting can't be seen on the pic.

It is a die clash. On the obverse you can see Britannia's knees impressed under the Queens chin, and on the reverse you can see the Queens profile to the right of the trident.

I hadn't noticed that on the reverse, before you said. Thanks Bob.

[Nick 329]

Here's 1949's penny with the other sides superimposed.

[1949threepence 3,367]

Here's 1949's penny with the other sides superimposed.

Thanks Nick ~ that clearly shows the effect of the die clash.

[Peter 615]

Brilliant work Nick.

[Nick 329]

Brilliant work Nick.

Glad to be of some use. I'm happy to help out with photo manipulation if anybody needs some assistance.

[Colin G. 147]

Read a fair bit about this but what exactly has happened i would have thought isf the dies had hit each other they would have been seriously damaged

It occurs when the dies are struck together without a blank in between. You'd have thought it would be catastrophic but it seems that they survive pretty well, leaving just an impression of one on the other. Clashed dies are extremely numerous on pre-Jubilee Victorian coins, especially the smaller denominations.

This is an 1840 farthing (2 prong trident) variety that is struck from clashed dies, this variety always has the clash evident and it is very clear.

That is the best example I have seen. I have an example.Colin Cooke stated he had only seen 3 in 25 years.

There was one on Ebay the other night and several of us knew what it was.The seller must of been shocked as it was a 99p coin without the clash.

This is mine.

http://www.omnicoin.com/coin/947669

I'm happy with mine and have no intention to improve it.

I have just upgraded from the one above, only slightly but the coin shown earlier in the thread is now up for grabs. They are a very difficult variety to obtain.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Colin G.

[Peter 615]

Very nice Colin.

I won't be upgrading mine but I reckon you are selling your old one too cheaply.It took me 20 years of searching to get mine.

I'm sorely tempted.

[loose54 21]

Hello all, I was wondering if you could help me with this interesting farthing. It is dated 1840 and it has a few unusual features. The first trident is shorter then normal, with this date obviously having the scarce two prong trident variety, and it has clashed die attributes as similar to the 1840 piece in this post. They are weaker then the example posted here but are in the same positions as is a key feature with the 2 prong trident. I have had a 1840 2 prong before and the prong was even shorter i.e non existent but I have seen other examples with varying lengths. I also note that the 1839 2 prong variety in the Colin Cooke collection had a prong similar to the length of this but being a different year it may have different attributes. In the opinion of the experts on here would you say this is possibly a 'mid point' variety between a normal specimen and the two prong trident? Any opinions or information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all, Jack.

[Gary1000 41]

As the missing prong is likely due to a filled die I would expect it to be progressive.