1898 Gouby B With 8 Over Tooth

[Peckris 579]

were they not, bringing the coinage up to standard after Henry VIII? seems best logic as you can record how much silver you are using and how much currency is out there.

doesnt matter how many mints, each one could record, make financial sence for the country.

seems like thebest logical explanation for this, look at key things, William III there are lots, due to recoinage, 1860 and 61, 1971, all replacing older coins, so more minted.

Sounds a good explanation to me - yes, Edward VI was the reign during which the awful debasements of his father's silver began to be rectified. So using a date on coins would make sense if the population were to have confidence in 'silver dated after ....' (whenever).

mints have minting figures, they know how many were made

we had mintmarks and monyers before dates, allowing for tracking etc.

there is no other real reason to put dates on, other then to keep track of how much is produced in that year, can't think of an actual other reason to do it, other then, because you can.

It may be done to make a political point. Take GC's Henry VIII Tournai groat which is dated 1513. Up to that date, no coin issued in the name of an English monarch had been dated, but for some reason it was decided to date this issue. It can be no coincidence that it was the year Henry resolved to recover some French soil following the loss of Calais nearly 60 years prior to this event and clearly made the political statement that the English were back in France, for which he was duly paid-off the following year. Nice little earner if you can do it.

Or it could just be a fashion statement given the earliest dated French coin was 1491 and so the 1513 groat was issued not long after. Based on the design, it was obviously intended for circulation in the local economy.

Yes, it sounds as though 1513 was used for political reasons, perhaps given the precedent set by the French for putting a date on a coin. Then later, during Edward VI's reign, the Mint would have remembered that, and maybe thought "Hey, we can use dates to our advantage to restore confidence in the currency?"

[PWA 1967 2,127]

Looking at a dealers list and one being for sale for £1800 in UNC 

It made me look at this thread and sorry to bring it up again.

The Gouby book lists them as scarce and at the time 5+ Known and wondered if anyone had looked for them previously.

I have a couple but only low grade.

Do you think they are worth looking for and worth a premium in high grade or just something nobody is bothered about ?.

Pete.

[1949threepence 3,367]

On 8/29/2013 at 2:03 AM, davidrj said:

the font is different - look at the final 8s in my composite above - the variant 8 is neater and symmetrical

So, although it may be very hard to spot, and invokes little interest, it is as significant as the open 3 for 1903

whether the change for either year was deliberate, or a busy mint worker accidentally used a numeral punch designed for a different coin, we will never know.

the variations of 3 in 1863 pennies may actually be due to where the coin was struck (by the Royal Mint, Watt or Heaton???)

interesting question, why are coins dated anyway? or more to the point why are the dies dated, as there is no guarantee as to when a coin was actually struck?

Interestingly enough, banknotes used to be - with the exact date of production, I believe, not merely the year. 

As for the variant in question, it's not one I've ever seen for sale, so I suspect there's no intererst at present. Maybe one for the future. Although the differences are so minute, that you obviously need strong magnification to even spot them.   

 

[PWA 1967 2,127]

If you have one or look at the pictures and look at the base of the 8 Mike it is easier to spot.

My eyes are not the best now but could spot one.......although would need my glasses on 

[1949threepence 3,367]

1 hour ago, PWA 1967 said:

If you have one or look at the pictures and look at the base of the 8 Mike it is easier to spot.

My eyes are not the best now but could spot one.......although would need my glasses on 

 

1 hour ago, PWA 1967 said:

If you have one or look at the pictures and look at the base of the 8 Mike it is easier to spot.

My eyes are not the best now but could spot one.......although would need my glasses on 

I think I'd have to look at a couple in hand, to see for myself Pete. 

Good stuff though. It's great when a new variant comes to light. 

 

[jelida 1,314]

3 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

Looking at a dealers list and one being for sale for £1800 in UNC 

It made me look at this thread and sorry to bring it up again.

The Gouby book lists them as scarce and at the time 5+ Known and wondered if anyone had looked for them previously.

I have a couple but only low grade.

Do you think they are worth looking for and worth a premium in high grade or just something nobody is bothered about ?.

Pete.

Is that the one MR has for sale? I had a good look at that at a coin fair earlier in the year. Beautiful example of an 1898,  and by far the best of the new '8' varity that I have seen,  but the dealer did admit that the asking price was a 'chancer' , and promptly dropped it very considerably, but not enough to tempt. I have posted before that I found two in my tub of 29 1898's. On this basis one might expect around one in 14 to be the new variety, and that would apply to uncirculated specimens too. Probably up there with the 1902 low tide, for example. So quite a scarce coin, and I would pay quite a good premium,  but I hope to find an unc one at 'normal' price eventually.

Jerry

Edited September 26, 2016 by jelida

[PWA 1967 2,127]

22 minutes ago, jelida said:

Is that the one MR has for sale? I had a good look at that at a coin fair earlier in the year. Beautiful example of an 1898,  and by far the best of the new '8' varity that I have seen,  but the dealer did admit that the asking price was a 'chancer' , and promptly dropped it very considerably, but not enough to tempt. I have posted before that I found two in my tub of 29 1898's. On this basis one might expect around one in 14 to be the new variety, and that would apply to uncirculated specimens too. Probably up there with the 1902 low tide, for example. So quite a scarce coin, and I would pay quite a good premium,  but I hope to find an unc one at 'normal' price eventually.

Jerry

The coin you mention you are correct Jerry.......wish i had bought it for the amount originally sold for but did not realise they were so hard to find.

I think 2 in 29 would be conservative and have spent twelve months looking for a good one and still only picked up a couple low grade.

Edited September 26, 2016 by PWA 1967

[alfnail 845]

The 1898B was also mentioned in the LCA March thread earlier this year, and I posted reference pictures:-

I always check for type B when I see an 1898, and I think they are much rarer than a 1 in 14 chance. I do know a collector who put one of these (think EF+ / aUNC) on ebay about a year ago for £400 BIN. He was offered £250 which he didn't accept. Not sure if he still has it, but could ask if anyone wants. 

 

[PWA 1967 2,127]

Remember that one Ian does he have Dogs 

Always trying to keep my daft brain ticking over.

[alfnail 845]

Yes that's him Pete, well remembered, not so daft. Remember you are a Luminary Poster so you know far more than a Junior Member like me.

[PWA 1967 2,127]

After another nine months looking at a lot the main indicator being last eight over tooth i am sure (possibly wrong) now the 11 teeth is much harder to find with a normal last 8.

Michael Gouby lists BP1898B with two last eights (normal / bisect ) and although both much scarcer than 10.5 teeth the normal eight in high grade is much harder to find IMO.

Half a tooth  however easy to tell at a glance due to the position.

I have seen the LCA one from three years ago infact i was the underbidder, but never another in high grade.

Does anyone have one or have an opinion as each time i spot one its always the bisect ?.

Pete.