Piece Of 8?

[Coinery 1,148]

I was watching Pirates of the Caribbean again with a few friends today and I was wondering what coin the Pieces of 8 actually are?

Ray Ives a treasure hunter in Plymouth called them coins from the association, not really sure what that is still

When you mentioned treasure hunter, south coast, and association in the same breath, I assumed you meant the 'Association' wreck!

Oh, dear!

[Asumel 6]

I was watching Pirates of the Caribbean again with a few friends today and I was wondering what coin the Pieces of 8 actually are?

Ray Ives a treasure hunter in Plymouth called them coins from the association, not really sure what that is still

When you mentioned treasure hunter, south coast, and association in the same breath, I assumed you meant the 'Association' wreck!

Oh, dear!

Its quite possible, He mentioned them in the video I posted the other day, the coins he had we mostly cobs, but a few properly minted ones too

[TomGoodheart 400]

Were they your own coins P & TG? Very nice if they were!

Afraid not, just one off ebay.

Nice looking indeed, but like most here, I wouldn't have a clue as to whether it was the real deal (LOL) or a fake!

Edited October 12, 2013 by TomGoodheart

[davidrj 194]

Nice looking indeed, but like most here, I wouldn't have a clue as to whether it was the real deal (LOL) or a fake!

There are serious collectors of these coins here best forum to ask questions before you purchase

Health warning - they are obsessed with slabs

[Sword 1,459]

An 8 reales coin is something that I will probably buy in the future. The design is very attractive and the history fascinating.

The countermarked ones are even more interesting but the messing up of the reverse by the punching of the mark is somewhat off putting.

When buying these coins, I have read somewhere that the grade of the countermark is more important than the grade of the coin itself. Is this true? I do find it a little strange given that those oval countermarks are small compared to the sizes of the coins. (I can easily accept that for the larger and rarer octagonal marks)

[azda 979]

An 8 reales coin is something that I will probably buy in the future. The design is very attractive and the history fascinating.

The countermarked ones are even more interesting but the messing up of the reverse by the punching of the mark is somewhat off putting.

When buying these coins, I have read somewhere that the grade of the countermark is more important than the grade of the coin itself. Is this true? I do find it a little strange given that those oval countermarks are small compared to the sizes of the coins. (I can easily accept that for the larger and rarer octagonal marks)

I think it is true Sword as the countermarks are always graded along with the coin

[Coinery 1,148]

An 8 reales coin is something that I will probably buy in the future. The design is very attractive and the history fascinating.

The countermarked ones are even more interesting but the messing up of the reverse by the punching of the mark is somewhat off putting.

When buying these coins, I have read somewhere that the grade of the countermark is more important than the grade of the coin itself. Is this true? I do find it a little strange given that those oval countermarks are small compared to the sizes of the coins. (I can easily accept that for the larger and rarer octagonal marks)

I think it's all relative, because we ALL know the importance of eye-appeal! The countermarks are certainly graded but, more important? I'd say equally so!

[Sword 1,459]

True.

Personally, I would be much happier collecting an EF 8 reales with a F oval countermark than a F coin with an EF countermark because of eye appeal. I guess the importance attached to the grade of the countermark is due to the relative rarity of marked coins compared to unmarked ones.

[Rob 3,152]

An 8 reales coin is something that I will probably buy in the future. The design is very attractive and the history fascinating.

The countermarked ones are even more interesting but the messing up of the reverse by the punching of the mark is somewhat off putting.

When buying these coins, I have read somewhere that the grade of the countermark is more important than the grade of the coin itself. Is this true? I do find it a little strange given that those oval countermarks are small compared to the sizes of the coins. (I can easily accept that for the larger and rarer octagonal marks)

Given that the countermarked coins generally go for more than the originals, it seems logical that the value is in the c/mark. higher grade = higher value

[Sword 1,459]

An 8 reales coin is something that I will probably buy in the future. The design is very attractive and the history fascinating.

The countermarked ones are even more interesting but the messing up of the reverse by the punching of the mark is somewhat off putting.

When buying these coins, I have read somewhere that the grade of the countermark is more important than the grade of the coin itself. Is this true? I do find it a little strange given that those oval countermarks are small compared to the sizes of the coins. (I can easily accept that for the larger and rarer octagonal marks)

Given that the countermarked coins generally go for more than the originals, it seems logical that the value is in the c/mark. higher grade = higher value

But I am not certain that a low grade coin with high grade countermark is rarer than a high grade coin with with low grade countermark. It certainly won't look so nice, to me anyway.

If the coin is high grade, it must have experienced little wear and so a low grade countermark is probably due to weak striking? And some of us are often rather sympathetic to weakly struck coins?

Surprisingly, Spink does not give any advice on this.

[Coinery 1,148]

My instinct would be that, due to the small size of the punch, weak strike would be a rarity in itself, especially when you see how the strike affects the reverse? Far more likely that high-grade host coins have good countermarks, unless of course the punch gets extremely worn, which of course has no bearing on grade (only eye-appeal)!

[Rob 3,152]

Given it is normally recessed, it is quite difficult to get a lot of wear on the mark, so I concur that the chances are that a low grade mark = weak punch. It would be nice to confirm this with what should be less damage to the reverse though before setting in stone. Image attached of my Lima 8R which has quite a strong punch. Image of the reverse to follow as I can't be bothered going into photobucket to show the whole coin.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Rob

[Rob 3,152]

And the reverse.

[TomGoodheart 400]

http://www.roderickrichardson.com/coins/coin-details.aspx?id=JD95