Toned Coins

[VickySilver 830]

Dam-, just lost my first response...

Nick that '69 is very nice and nicer than the (dipped) bit that Mark R. had on sale some while ago (?still does?), mine I bought as a slabbed "62".

I think Paulus' '02 6d is illustrative as IMHO this coin may have been dipped some time ago and then followed the unfortunate colour oxidation scheme presented on the post about the toning on the -92 half crown in PCGS livery. It is just a bit too uniform in its yellow/light brown transition and something about the uniformity about especially the obverse device just a bit off.

And this is not to say it is not an attractive piece, as it most certainly is. I think there are many coins, slabbed or not, CGS, PCGS, NGC or not that have been dipped or cleaned if it indeed was. A problem arises such as with the case of the famous dipped Norweb 1893 S Morgan dollar that probably lost 300-400k USD in value by so doing.

The 1821 crown is a bit more blatant IMO as a dipped and lightly retoned and it along with the 1834 bit the most blatant of that category. Thankfully light toning sans the neon electric treatment!

The 1806 - weill I don't collect bits so early as this but have noticed that certain older and sometimes ? original holders may lend to purplish an maybe slightly bluish tone to silver coins, with the slightly later copper proofs more like those shown by Accumulator and reminding a bit of chocolate. The infamous seller "greattoning" on ebay has in the past had some mainly US copper of a similar colour. His bits have almost always IMO been enhanced. So I apologise at including it, but do say that his (gt's) doctors would readily be able to replicate. I am sure it would have a very good chance at slabbing.

Disclaimer on above ebay seller - he has pm'd me and informed me he does not do the work, which is not to say directly or indirectly he might know more than just a bit of how his bits got to be like that.

The 1787 bit has a history that is good with no monkeying with since at least 1984 - that is nearly 30 years, and wow! I have occasionally seen dipped coins to retain cleaning residue possibly even after rinse and then to enhance later toning and IMO this may be the case.

Confessional:

Ah, running out of time here but will try to keep plugging away and do hope once again not to have offended. I will say that I proudly have some very nice coins in my own collection that have been dipped, some elsewhere and some my responsibility of later 20th Century vintage. BTW, only sold a few as I suffer from Packrat Syndrome! I admit I still occasionly use acetone to remove adherent residues such as tape or finger oils and the like. I love original lightly toned Victorian silver best as you might have guessed.

[Rob 3,152]

If you want an example of AT copper, here's one slabbed MS63 by NGC. I left the sticker on the slab (seen on the rev) as I assumed this was the colour ordered.

[Rob 3,152]

reverse

[Colin G. 147]

The 1806 - weill I don't collect bits so early as this but have noticed that certain older and sometimes ? original holders may lend to purplish an maybe slightly bluish tone to silver coins, with the slightly later copper proofs more like those shown by Accumulator and reminding a bit of chocolate. The infamous seller "greattoning" on ebay has in the past had some mainly US copper of a similar colour. His bits have almost always IMO been enhanced. So I apologise at including it, but do say that his (gt's) doctors would readily be able to replicate. I am sure it would have a very good chance at slabbing.

In fairness to people looking at the images the coin only displays this tone when viewed at an angle, but the image taken captured the colour really well. In hand from most angles it does appear typical colour with only a faint hue normally visible, but again for me that highlights why it is difficult to be certain from a single photo (other than when it is a blatant eye watering rainbow like some of the pics previously posted).

[Colin G. 147]

Rob I have to say I would not be convinced that what is shown on that coin is AT. My verdict may be different with coin in hand, but that tone seems quite plausibly natural to me. What led you to the conclusion that this coin is AT?

Edited October 24, 2013 by Colin G.

[Rob 3,152]

Rob I have to say I would not be convinced that what is shown on that coin is AT. My verdict may be different with coin in hand, but that tone seems quite plausibly natural to me.

Sky blue? It is uniform and overall. It may be a cleaning agent residue rather than deliberately AT, but it dosn't look very natural in hand.The blue is highlighted because of the change in relief on the design, but is in the fields too.

[Colin G. 147]

Rob I have to say I would not be convinced that what is shown on that coin is AT. My verdict may be different with coin in hand, but that tone seems quite plausibly natural to me.

Sky blue? It is uniform and overall. It may be a cleaning agent residue rather than deliberately AT, but it dosn't look very natural in hand.The blue is highlighted because of the change in relief on the design, but is in the fields too.

I agree that it may be a residue of some sort, or reaction from previous storage conditions, but for me that is not AT, the coin has not undergone deliberate enhancement. The blue may not be your preferred colour , but I don't believe anyone could achieve that tone on bronze/copper instantly and deliberately.

Actually if you want to sell it at a severely knocked down price to me because of that bright blue AT, I may consider taking it off your hands

Edited October 24, 2013 by Colin G.

[Peckris 579]

Uhhh, Nick how about bribing my silence by paying me off with the 1869 6d? LOL

OK, I don't want to start a witch hunt with my hide the designated target, but IMO a couple of questionables (okay excepting Nick and Accumulator, with whose I can't quibble):

the OP 1902 6d, cleaned and retoned

the 1834 2/6 , cleaned or dipped.

the 1787 jaggy bit cleaned/dipped and retoned

the 1911 2/6

the 1821 crown

that 1806 Colin G bit

LOL - you didn't read, VS!! That halfcrown is a proof, and one of the finest coins I own! Remember that 1911 proof florin of Dave's you all cooed over a while back? Well, it's the equal of that, if not even better. Just a pity that a scan can't show its true beauty.

[DaveG38 405]

Is this one natural, or has somebody wrecked a perfectly respectable Scottish coin? I'm suspicious considering the price and the slab.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1390-1403-ROBERT-III-GROAT-S5164-PCGS-AU50-SCOTLAND-MAGNIFICIENT-TONED-ONLY-1/231049493565?_trksid=p2045573.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D18190%26meid%3D2235429337737711701%26pid%3D100034%26prg%3D8337%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D131029081191%26

[Colin G. 147]

Certainly looks a bit ropey, I wondered if it may have been as a result of the coin being heated up. I have tried to spot a repair. The fact that the tone is only in the recesses also makes you think it may be as a result of a surface residue of something used to clean the coin, which has subsequently been removed form the higher points.

[TomGoodheart 400]

Is this one natural, or has somebody wrecked a perfectly respectable Scottish coin? I'm suspicious considering the price and the slab.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1390-1403-ROBERT-III-GROAT-S5164-PCGS-AU50-SCOTLAND-MAGNIFICIENT-TONED-ONLY-1/231049493565?_trksid=p2045573.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D18190%26meid%3D2235429337737711701%26pid%3D100034%26prg%3D8337%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D131029081191%26

Gosh! You have to admire how they've got the coin to match the holographic label on the slab!

[Peter 615]

Is that just a weak strike?

Or is it a nice coin that has had a lot of wear?

[Coinery 1,148]

Is this one natural, or has somebody wrecked a perfectly respectable Scottish coin? I'm suspicious considering the price and the slab.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1390-1403-ROBERT-III-GROAT-S5164-PCGS-AU50-SCOTLAND-MAGNIFICIENT-TONED-ONLY-1/231049493565?_trksid=p2045573.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D18190%26meid%3D2235429337737711701%26pid%3D100034%26prg%3D8337%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D131029081191%26

Gosh! You have to admire how they've got the coin to match the holographic label on the slab!

Been removed!

[DaveG38 405]

Is this one natural, or has somebody wrecked a perfectly respectable Scottish coin? I'm suspicious considering the price and the slab.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1390-1403-ROBERT-III-GROAT-S5164-PCGS-AU50-SCOTLAND-MAGNIFICIENT-TONED-ONLY-1/231049493565?_trksid=p2045573.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D18190%26meid%3D2235429337737711701%26pid%3D100034%26prg%3D8337%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D131029081191%26

Gosh! You have to admire how they've got the coin to match the holographic label on the slab!

Been removed!

I'm still seeing it!

[Coinery 1,148]

Is this one natural, or has somebody wrecked a perfectly respectable Scottish coin? I'm suspicious considering the price and the slab.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1390-1403-ROBERT-III-GROAT-S5164-PCGS-AU50-SCOTLAND-MAGNIFICIENT-TONED-ONLY-1/231049493565?_trksid=p2045573.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D18190%26meid%3D2235429337737711701%26pid%3D100034%26prg%3D8337%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D131029081191%26

Gosh! You have to admire how they've got the coin to match the holographic label on the slab!

Been removed!

I'm still seeing it!

That's bizarre, so am I now! The link definitely directed to eBay's 'this item has been removed' page...weird!

[VickySilver 830]

One famous toner/cleaning fluid is the MS70 copper cleaner which is noted for leaving a bluish discolouration.

The 1911 2/6, like many of its proof silver brethren have some questionable toning secondary to cleaning (in many occasions). The "shininess" always can be one-upped and one only hopes that non-abrasives or cloths used; the corollary is that the opposite is true with the 1902 matte proofs whose dull nature was thought to be improved by a swipe or two... Even the minimal skin that develops can be altered by cleaning and make the coin in general more subject to retoning - some more natural appearing than others.

Colin's coin is interesting in that what I was trying to say is that analagous - I think - toning can be seen on silver coins that have been stored in original boxes or other felt lined boxes and develope interesting toning..

[azda 979]

Good grief, they'll kill anything as Long as it makes them an extra Dollar. As for the AU grade, hahahahaha aye right.

[Peckris 579]

Is this one natural, or has somebody wrecked a perfectly respectable Scottish coin? I'm suspicious considering the price and the slab.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1390-1403-ROBERT-III-GROAT-S5164-PCGS-AU50-SCOTLAND-MAGNIFICIENT-TONED-ONLY-1/231049493565?_trksid=p2045573.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D18190%26meid%3D2235429337737711701%26pid%3D100034%26prg%3D8337%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D131029081191%26

Gosh! You have to admire how they've got the coin to match the holographic label on the slab!

Been removed!

I'm still seeing it!

Me too. The seller obviously belongs to the "If You've Already Put Up A Picture Of The Slab, Put Up Another Upside-down" school of eBayers.

[Sword 1,460]

I have just got back from a break and have just admired the great coins posted. This halfcrown has toned darkly in the legends with the rest of the coin virtually untoned. It reminds me of the bi-metallic £2 coins.

[Sword 1,460]

and the obverse.

[Coinery 1,148]

I always thought this:

and of course, whatever excuse, this...

were very pretty coins! (albeit the 2nd coin is a 'retoning' coin, though I am certainly in no mood to rush it )

Edited October 27, 2013 by Coinery

[TomGoodheart 400]

If Peter and I get bumped off Coin Community Forum it's all my fault!

I couldn't resist chipping in on the subject of *coughnaturallycough* toned coins again!

[Paulus 1,975]

If Peter and I get bumped off Coin Community Forum it's all my fault!

I couldn't resist chipping in on the subject of *coughnaturallycough* toned coins again!

Looking forward to what 'Met' comes back with next, "anti-American racists" indeed!!

[TomGoodheart 400]

If Peter and I get bumped off Coin Community Forum it's all my fault!

I couldn't resist chipping in on the subject of *coughnaturallycough* toned coins again!

Looking forward to what 'Met' comes back with next, "anti-American racists" indeed!!

Odd thing is ... he's based in the UK according to his profile!

[azda 979]

If Peter and I get bumped off Coin Community Forum it's all my fault!

I couldn't resist chipping in on the subject of *coughnaturallycough* toned coins again!

Looking forward to what 'Met' comes back with next, "anti-American racists" indeed!!

Odd thing is ... he's based in the UK according to his profile!

Its probably David Cameron