Noble Sale 104

[Garrett 76]

The 1837 penny is listed as sold for $800.00 in the catalogue.

If you bid $800.00 and were the high bidder I cannot see why you wouldn't have it bagged, Accumulator.

[Accumulator 52]

I think you can check the 1837 penny as there is a prices realised list on the website. I agonised over putting in a low bid for the cleaned William IV penny but in the end didn't.

I picked up a heap of stuff, would have been a heap more but some lots where I was the highest bidder appears to be unsold, presumably because the reserve was not met.

Fair to say my coin budget is busted and agree having too many auctions close together is not good.

I am glad it's over. I assembled a spreadsheet of lots I was interested in, researched catalogue and past auction prices, examined photo's closely and compared to photo's of authentic coins, examined photo's to see if the grading looked reasonable, worked out how much to bid etc etc etc.

Enjoyable but a bit of work !!

Anyway, congrats to anyone who picked up a nice coin. Looked like there were some bargains made interspersed among the high bids I could not understand !

cheers

Garrett.

The listed sale price is the same as my maximum bid price. I'm not sure how Noble works, but with many auction houses room bidders take priority. So it's possible someone won the coin from the floor.

The 'my bids' section of the website suggests I've won and I've emailed for confirmation. We shall just have to see...

[Garrett 76]

Okay good luck !!

It's early Thursday here, and the auctions goes into Friday so you might take a while to get the confirmation.

[shagreen 24]

Hi everyone, there were some nice UK pieces in this auction - in fact the quality was right up there compared to the pretty ordinary or absent 19th C proof material coming up in the auctions around London in the next few days. I paid record prices for the 1831 half crown and 1853 shilling - its very competitive over here to buy anything in those grades. Jim has just introduced live on line bidding but I expect it was also dealers buying on commission that drove the key coin prices up. I didnt bid high on the 1853 half crown as it had some rim damage at 3pm on reverse.

https://www.noble.com.au/auctions/lot/?id=310670

https://www.noble.com.au/auctions/lot/?id=310763

https://www.noble.com.au/auctions/lot/?id=310697

the results do show that good prices can be achieved for raw i.e. unslabbed UK coins here in Australia or maybe its just that I am crazy and need to seek therapy for my addiction to nice 19thC proofs

[Rob 3,152]

I think you can check the 1837 penny as there is a prices realised list on the website. I agonised over putting in a low bid for the cleaned William IV penny but in the end didn't.

I picked up a heap of stuff, would have been a heap more but some lots where I was the highest bidder appears to be unsold, presumably because the reserve was not met.

Fair to say my coin budget is busted and agree having too many auctions close together is not good.

I am glad it's over. I assembled a spreadsheet of lots I was interested in, researched catalogue and past auction prices, examined photo's closely and compared to photo's of authentic coins, examined photo's to see if the grading looked reasonable, worked out how much to bid etc etc etc.

Enjoyable but a bit of work !!

Anyway, congrats to anyone who picked up a nice coin. Looked like there were some bargains made interspersed among the high bids I could not understand !

cheers

Garrett.

The listed sale price is the same as my maximum bid price. I'm not sure how Noble works, but with many auction houses room bidders take priority. So it's possible someone won the coin from the floor.

The 'my bids' section of the website suggests I've won and I've emailed for confirmation. We shall just have to see...

I suggest you will always win it at your maximum, which is why I will only put in a pitifully low bid or not bother any more. Or to put it another way, an OTT bid to ensure you win it will do just that - at your OTT price. I've never met anyone who won something at less than their maximum, hence the above statement. That also explains the inexplicably high bids questioned by Garrett

Edited November 27, 2013 by Rob

[Paulus 1,975]

I think you can check the 1837 penny as there is a prices realised list on the website. I agonised over putting in a low bid for the cleaned William IV penny but in the end didn't.

I picked up a heap of stuff, would have been a heap more but some lots where I was the highest bidder appears to be unsold, presumably because the reserve was not met.

Fair to say my coin budget is busted and agree having too many auctions close together is not good.

I am glad it's over. I assembled a spreadsheet of lots I was interested in, researched catalogue and past auction prices, examined photo's closely and compared to photo's of authentic coins, examined photo's to see if the grading looked reasonable, worked out how much to bid etc etc etc.

Enjoyable but a bit of work !!

Anyway, congrats to anyone who picked up a nice coin. Looked like there were some bargains made interspersed among the high bids I could not understand !

cheers

Garrett.

The listed sale price is the same as my maximum bid price. I'm not sure how Noble works, but with many auction houses room bidders take priority. So it's possible someone won the coin from the floor.

The 'my bids' section of the website suggests I've won and I've emailed for confirmation. We shall just have to see...

I suggest you will always win it at your maximum, which is why I will only put in a pitifully low bid or not bother any more.

Sounds like good advice Rob ... aren't the auction houses subject to some sort of scrutiny/audit around such things?

[Nick 329]

I think you can check the 1837 penny as there is a prices realised list on the website. I agonised over putting in a low bid for the cleaned William IV penny but in the end didn't.

I picked up a heap of stuff, would have been a heap more but some lots where I was the highest bidder appears to be unsold, presumably because the reserve was not met.

Fair to say my coin budget is busted and agree having too many auctions close together is not good.

I am glad it's over. I assembled a spreadsheet of lots I was interested in, researched catalogue and past auction prices, examined photo's closely and compared to photo's of authentic coins, examined photo's to see if the grading looked reasonable, worked out how much to bid etc etc etc.

Enjoyable but a bit of work !!

Anyway, congrats to anyone who picked up a nice coin. Looked like there were some bargains made interspersed among the high bids I could not understand !

cheers

Garrett.

The listed sale price is the same as my maximum bid price. I'm not sure how Noble works, but with many auction houses room bidders take priority. So it's possible someone won the coin from the floor.

The 'my bids' section of the website suggests I've won and I've emailed for confirmation. We shall just have to see...

I suggest you will always win it at your maximum, which is why I will only put in a pitifully low bid or not bother any more.

Sounds like good advice Rob ... aren't the auction houses subject to some sort of scrutiny/audit around such things?

I wouldn't have thought so. It would be so easy for them to invent a convenient under-bidder just below the highest commission bid received.

[Rob 3,152]

You just have to be aware of how the various houses operate. They aren't alone. A prominent collector was bemoaning to me that he had put in an OTT bid in an attempt to ensure that the lot was won in a US auction. In the actual sale, the lot was opened and the auctioneer said they had a large bid on the book. Nobody from the floor bid, and it was duly booked to this collector - at his maximum which was a couple thousand above what he would reasonably expect to pay.

You can't complain that rules have been broken because your bid sheet records the level to which you are prepared to bid for each and every lot indicated. And not unreasonably, that is binding, but does provide a salutory lesson for the gung-ho bidder when he/she eventually gets stung.

[shagreen 24]

I guess it always gets down to trust, I didnt pay my maximum bids on the lots I won in this auction, but I think it is getting harder for auction house's to sham bid when its live on line with a room audience as well - bidders arent stupid and auctioneers reputations are at stake.

[Rob 3,152]

I guess it always gets down to trust, I didnt pay my maximum bids on the lots I won in this auction, but I think it is getting harder for auction house's to sham bid when its live on line with a room audience as well - bidders arent stupid and auctioneers reputations are at stake.

Were you at the sale, as this would have a material effect on your bidding? It is the absent bidder on the other side of the planet who doesn't have any idea what is going on in the saleroom who is most exposed. I know of several people who get a local to bid for them rather than risk an emailed bid list. A fair reflection of my perception of the situation is summed up by the fact that I have never yet won a lot for my maximum bid at Downies, yet conversely I have never paid less than my maximum for any submitted bid at Noble. A live sale via the web would reduce the number of emailed bids in advance, but would likely result in greater participation on the day than is currently the case.

Was this one live on-line? I'm afraid I didn't even bother looking to find out because I assumed it was a case of as you were.

[shagreen 24]

I was not at the sale but you could bid on line up to 2hrs before the relevant session (as with Heritage) and check how many individual bidders there were and if you were still the highest on the lot .

There was live streaming video of the auction and you could bid live on line. This prebidding pretty well set my final winning prices. Only an increment or 2 more in the live session won the lots.

With Downies I have never paid the full bid either, but only bid with them for maybe 8 lots over the years. With Nobles I have been a buyer and seller for 10 years or so.

In general

with any auctioneer its a conflict of interest if they own the lot and I think that should be declared but of course it isn't . They get paid on a % of the hammer price so again its an incentive to pump up the price, but again I am comfortable with the fact that if they want to stay in business and grow there business there reputation is paramount. The word gets around quickly these days and you only need a few bad reviews or experiences to bid somewhere else. I really like Heritage and have never paid my full bids with them, they are really setting the standard now in terms of technology and scale.

[Rob 3,152]

Things have obviously moved on a bit since I last bid & any changes resulting in increased openness will be warmly welcomed.

[MRD 6]

Things have obviously moved on a bit since I last bid & any changes resulting in increased openness will be warmly welcomed.

Not likely, I was at the auction on Wed and i can say at times i was perplexed, the table was certainly buying some of its own or the vendors coins back at the estimate shown in the catalogue.

[Garrett 76]

I was just tuning into the ancient Greek gold. Had the audio going today as I am not on broadband.

One lot the auctioneer called for $1000-00 a couple of times then there a voice 'I got a bid for $1600.00'.

What the hell ?? Obviously not his money.

Commission based bidding ?

Maybe I misheard ?

[Garrett 76]

Okay must be explained by the pre-bidding getting to that level or something.

Phew

[Coinery 1,154]

Honestly, Garrett, I have asked this question so many times! What other industry has a license to print money like this? Their income depends upon big hammers...they are human! I truly hate leaving top bids!

Edit: I wonder whether the transparency??? of live online bidding would actually suit some houses? We all go on about those auctions rooms who have yet to join the digital age...I wonder if they've calculated that they are better off just as they are, thank-you very much?

Edited November 28, 2013 by Coinery

[Peter 615]

I've mentioned it before but a good friend was a Fine Art Auctioneer.

Palms are greased or bids maybe run.

It happens and there is little transparency.

An anonymous disclosure of commission bids would help but with phone lines,internet and the room the auctioneer

holds the aces.

[Garrett 76]

The listed sale price is the same as my maximum bid price. I'm not sure how Noble works, but with many auction houses room bidders take priority. So it's possible someone won the coin from the floor.

The 'my bids' section of the website suggests I've won and I've emailed for confirmation. We shall just have to see...

Did you hear back about the penny yet Accumulator ?

It's 1.15pm Friday in Sydney now, so hopefully you will hear soon (if not already).

The penny sure will do a great job in filling a gap in your cabinet !

[Accumulator 52]

The listed sale price is the same as my maximum bid price. I'm not sure how Noble works, but with many auction houses room bidders take priority. So it's possible someone won the coin from the floor.

The 'my bids' section of the website suggests I've won and I've emailed for confirmation. We shall just have to see...

Did you hear back about the penny yet Accumulator ?

It's 1.15pm Friday in Sydney now, so hopefully you will hear soon (if not already).

The penny sure will do a great job in filling a gap in your cabinet !

Not a word from them yet, nor on my other wins, so I'm assuming I won't hear anything until sometime after the series of auctions end. No reply to my email either.

[Garrett 76]

okay then

It is 5pm in Brisbane now, so 6pm in Sydney.

My guess is we won't see an invoice until next week. Hopefully they will delight their customers by replying on the weekend.

Anyway, best of luck mate !

[azda 979]

Honestly, Garrett, I have asked this question so many times! What other industry has a license to print money like this? Their income depends upon big hammers...they are human! I truly hate leaving top bids!

Edit: I wonder whether the transparency??? of live online bidding would actually suit some houses? We all go on about those auctions rooms who have yet to join the digital age...I wonder if they've calculated that they are better off just as they are, thank-you very much?

They are all suspect to wall bidding, but as Rob points out, low ball bids can also be effective. If you can watch/bid/listen live the. You also have a chance to NOT bid as the case was at the last DNW sale where a majority of coins went stratospheric and so when you actually got back up from Fällung on you back at the opening price it was already gone at 5-10 times estimate.

The next 2 Sales at Londons and DNW will be interesting, but i still won't bid on Londons for 2 reasons, conflict of interest (CGS& Londons) plus no live bidding which for a major auction house like Londons is pretty much behind the times

[Peckris 579]

Honestly, Garrett, I have asked this question so many times! What other industry has a license to print money like this? Their income depends upon big hammers...they are human! I truly hate leaving top bids!

Edit: I wonder whether the transparency??? of live online bidding would actually suit some houses? We all go on about those auctions rooms who have yet to join the digital age...I wonder if they've calculated that they are better off just as they are, thank-you very much?

They are all suspect to wall bidding, but as Rob points out, low ball bids can also be effective. If you can watch/bid/listen live the. You also have a chance to NOT bid as the case was at the last DNW sale where a majority of coins went stratospheric and so when you actually got back up from Fällung on you back at the opening price it was already gone at 5-10 times estimate.

The next 2 Sales at Londons and DNW will be interesting, but i still won't bid on Londons for 2 reasons, conflict of interest (CGS& Londons) plus no live bidding which for a major auction house like Londons is pretty much behind the times

Fällung? Who's Fällung when he's at home?

[Peter 615]

Dave

Stick to your sneekie Deutsche contacts.

I shall look at LC this weekend.I have a bit of potential Xmas money.

I also have a couple of other sources.

[Accumulator 52]

Dave

Stick to your sneekie Deutsche contacts.

I shall look at LC this weekend.I have a bit of potential Xmas money.

I also have a couple of other sources.

I'll be at LC on Sunday, if anyone else is going?

[TanV 0]

Hi folks , I'm totally new to this so forgive any future foolish questions. I've literally started a few months ago, although i have bought a few coins from some of you on here! This is a great forum by the way, thoroughly enjoying reading and following all the conversations. I'm giving auctions a go. Have used sale room.com for some (it's a bit addictive), but I live abroad so have to be careful as postage and packaging and kill the price. I've also put in some absentee bids via email for londoncoins, and given them another list of lots that they will call me on so I can bid live via the telephone. They said they will call me a few lots ahead, so not sure if that helps you at all. I'll let you know how it goes.