1806 Pr-64

[douna 0]

hi - New guy here. I have a very strong copper and bronze collection. This item popped up on eBay a while back. No one bit first time around, so whoever it is relisted it. Anyone know anything about this coin. If it truly is a Pop. 1 coin, there should be some sort of provenance, I would think. Thanks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191017587393?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[azda 979]

sorry, i don't but it looks expensive however you look at it. british collectors don't go much for what a label says or the razzmatazz of which pop number it might be. its a nice coin but very expensive

[Rob 3,152]

Herein lies a large part of the problems associated with the TPGs. All of them live in an isolated world where they are the only TPG. Consequently, pop1 is a frequently encountered term meaning they have only slabbed one coin. So what? Others almost certainly will have done so given that it is a P1325, which Peck only rated scarce, and I know of several collectors of Soho material who wouldn't be seen dead putting their coins into plastic, myself included. POP1, finest known is therefore complete and utter b*****ks in the overall scheme of things and should be treated only as marketing hype, which it is. Ignore the plastic and ask yourself if it is a good example of the type in comparison to the others available and is the price fair? NB. I'll give you a clue. It isn't unique.

In fact, the point that they have only slabbed one example shows how limited their experience is with many foreign coins.

Another bonus is that the seller doesn't ship to the UK. Phew. That saves us Brits wasting our hard earned cash on an overpriced piece of plastic. Doubles all round.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Rob

[TomGoodheart 400]

Is this the coin that sold at London Coins 112 (March 2006) Lot 1172?

"Penny 1806 Peck 1325 in Gilt base of 1 missing and 0 open at the top nFDC with some minor field imperfections "

In which case someone is aiming to make big gains on the £290 hammer paid at the time ...

Edited January 12, 2014 by TomGoodheart

[Rob 3,152]

Is this the coin that sold at London Coins 112 (March 2006) Lot 1172?

"Penny 1806 Peck 1325 in Gilt base of 1 missing and 0 open at the top nFDC with some minor field imperfections "

In which case someone is aiming to make big gains on the £290 hammer paid at the time ...

No idea. I don't follow them as they aren't rare. Many things arrive at odd numbers following a tranatlantic journey, so it could be. Defective 1 and 0 are characteristics of the Peck type, so means nothing. Minor field imperfections are found on many patterns and proofs, some post mint, some as originally struck.

[azda 979]

Is this the coin that sold at London Coins 112 (March 2006) Lot 1172?

"Penny 1806 Peck 1325 in Gilt base of 1 missing and 0 open at the top nFDC with some minor field imperfections "

In which case someone is aiming to make big gains on the £290 hammer paid at the time ...

itf it is the same coin it just goes to show what the Americans are doing. buying high grade british, slabbing amd hoping some mug will part with huge amounts to buy it, thus making massive profits to do the same again. funny thing is though, its mainly Americans that are buying into it all. douna, we're not bashing you, its just thatw e see this and discuss this maybe once a month. american buyers have bought into a huge marketing scheme and those biyers are buying into a slab number and not whats in the slab.

Do your homework before buying, sellers like the one you've pointed put are ripping you guys off because you're believing the hype, it really is all BS as Rob says. check out previous auctions for a similar coin amd see if it sold for $2000+ my gues is you won't find any unless you look at heritage which is another outrageous marketing ploy.

[azda 979]

Douna, the reason it probably did'nt sell was perhaps it was too expensive, just a thought

[Peter 615]

Damn

I was clutching my pocket money and missed that £250 beauty...who poured the plastic over it?

[Rob 3,152]

You could always buy it and then claim a refund on the grounds it was mis-described. It wasn't struck in 1806, that much is clear. Anyway, 1806 + 207 is 2013, so the maths is still faulty.

[copper123 1,485]

lovely coin but overpriced

[Accumulator 52]

I agree, it's a lovely example of Peck 1325. I only have the 1321, (which is without the faulty 1 & 0 in the date, though apparently slightly scarcer). Price seems too high though, around $1500 would be the max for this coin in my opinion.

Anyway, that aside, welcome to the forum! There are many copper & bronze collectors here and we'd be interested to hear more about your coins.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Accumulator

[douna 0]

Accumulator - Thank you for welcoming me. I was referred by my old friend Bronze & Copper Collector, who is far more advanced at this than I am. I asked about the 1806 because I'm not real strong on the coppers. Mainly, I'm interested in the bronzes, and have a fairly complete collection--well, not counting all the different date style variations that Gouby has catalogued. I'm missing the ones most others are: the Freeman R-18s and 19s, although I do have a number of extreme rarities, including the F-41, F-21, 1860 N/sideways N, and 1860, both the missing and the misaligned colon dots. Also there are many which could use an upgrade, particularly my F-148, which has to be rarer than F-9. I haven't seen any on eBay. Gouby had a gorgeous Unc in his shop when I visited London two summers ago. Would have loved to get it, but couldn't afford it. It went quickly, I believe.

I'm also missing the F-169, which Freeman lists as R-9. it has to be much scarcer than that. I've only seen two on eBay since I started about 13 years ago. The most recent one was worn but went for big bucks as I recall. The other was very nice, but it was in my earliest days and since it went for $US 40, I probably misidentified it. It wasn't identified beyond being an '09, so the other possibility is that it just sneaked by everyone.

In any event, I'm looking to acquire an F-169, in whatever condition.

I didn't know it was us Americans driving up prices, but they certainly have escalated, at least in some areas. Sorry about that. But look at it this way: with our horrid monetary policy, inflation is a matter of when, not if, and when it hits collectibles should go through the roof, so you can sell back to us!

[Accumulator 52]

Accumulator - Thank you for welcoming me. I was referred by my old friend Bronze & Copper Collector, who is far more advanced at this than I am. I asked about the 1806 because I'm not real strong on the coppers. Mainly, I'm interested in the bronzes, and have a fairly complete collection--well, not counting all the different date style variations that Gouby has catalogued. I'm missing the ones most others are: the Freeman R-18s and 19s, although I do have a number of extreme rarities, including the F-41, F-21, 1860 N/sideways N, and 1860, both the missing and the misaligned colon dots. Also there are many which could use an upgrade, particularly my F-148, which has to be rarer than F-9. I haven't seen any on eBay. Gouby had a gorgeous Unc in his shop when I visited London two summers ago. Would have loved to get it, but couldn't afford it. It went quickly, I believe.

I'm also missing the F-169, which Freeman lists as R-9. it has to be much scarcer than that. I've only seen two on eBay since I started about 13 years ago. The most recent one was worn but went for big bucks as I recall. The other was very nice, but it was in my earliest days and since it went for $US 40, I probably misidentified it. It wasn't identified beyond being an '09, so the other possibility is that it just sneaked by everyone.

In any event, I'm looking to acquire an F-169, in whatever condition.

I didn't know it was us Americans driving up prices, but they certainly have escalated, at least in some areas. Sorry about that. But look at it this way: with our horrid monetary policy, inflation is a matter of when, not if, and when it hits collectibles should go through the roof, so you can sell back to us!

I do know Gary from this forum and from a few exchanges of emails. I also have one or two of his coins. You'll find several other keen bronze collectors here too.

Well done for having put together a fairly complete collection. I have a long way to go, but do collect right back to 1797, which widens the scope. Like you, I tend only to collect the Freeman 'numbers' with the obvious Gouby varieties. I don't often bother with the date width variations or filled-die type errors.

Both F-21 and F-41 are great finds, especially if in better than 'washer' condition. F-148 isn't so common in high grade, but UNC examples are out there. Baldwins sold one last year from their fixed price list.

I tend to agree about the F-169. VR Court found 2 in 1700 coins searched, but I honestly think he was lucky. They seem rarer than that.

[Coinery 1,152]

Not really my area but, you're obviously serious, and that is a most welcome quality on here...welcome aboard, douna!

[Red Riley 2]

Accumulator - Thank you for welcoming me. I was referred by my old friend Bronze & Copper Collector, who is far more advanced at this than I am. I asked about the 1806 because I'm not real strong on the coppers. Mainly, I'm interested in the bronzes, and have a fairly complete collection--well, not counting all the different date style variations that Gouby has catalogued. I'm missing the ones most others are: the Freeman R-18s and 19s, although I do have a number of extreme rarities, including the F-41, F-21, 1860 N/sideways N, and 1860, both the missing and the misaligned colon dots. Also there are many which could use an upgrade, particularly my F-148, which has to be rarer than F-9. I haven't seen any on eBay. Gouby had a gorgeous Unc in his shop when I visited London two summers ago. Would have loved to get it, but couldn't afford it. It went quickly, I believe.

I'm also missing the F-169, which Freeman lists as R-9. it has to be much scarcer than that. I've only seen two on eBay since I started about 13 years ago. The most recent one was worn but went for big bucks as I recall. The other was very nice, but it was in my earliest days and since it went for $US 40, I probably misidentified it. It wasn't identified beyond being an '09, so the other possibility is that it just sneaked by everyone.

In any event, I'm looking to acquire an F-169, in whatever condition.

I didn't know it was us Americans driving up prices, but they certainly have escalated, at least in some areas. Sorry about that. But look at it this way: with our horrid monetary policy, inflation is a matter of when, not if, and when it hits collectibles should go through the roof, so you can sell back to us!

F-numbers? AAAAGGGGHHHH! I love my pennies but just can't relate to raw reference, hence it took me about 20 minutes to decipher this post!

Anyway, going back to the original coin under scrutiny, I was talking to an old oppo of Rob's the other day re Soho proofs and patterns and since he's something of an expert I tend to listen to what he says on the subject, which was that anything less than hen's teeth rare and nigh on perfect may prove hard to shift as there aren't that many type collectors out there. Those that there are have by and large got the common stuff in better grade than you are likely to come across on the market. Deciphering all that, I think he would say don't touch it with a bargepole.

[Accumulator 52]

Accumulator - Thank you for welcoming me. I was referred by my old friend Bronze & Copper Collector, who is far more advanced at this than I am. I asked about the 1806 because I'm not real strong on the coppers. Mainly, I'm interested in the bronzes, and have a fairly complete collection--well, not counting all the different date style variations that Gouby has catalogued. I'm missing the ones most others are: the Freeman R-18s and 19s, although I do have a number of extreme rarities, including the F-41, F-21, 1860 N/sideways N, and 1860, both the missing and the misaligned colon dots. Also there are many which could use an upgrade, particularly my F-148, which has to be rarer than F-9. I haven't seen any on eBay. Gouby had a gorgeous Unc in his shop when I visited London two summers ago. Would have loved to get it, but couldn't afford it. It went quickly, I believe.

I'm also missing the F-169, which Freeman lists as R-9. it has to be much scarcer than that. I've only seen two on eBay since I started about 13 years ago. The most recent one was worn but went for big bucks as I recall. The other was very nice, but it was in my earliest days and since it went for $US 40, I probably misidentified it. It wasn't identified beyond being an '09, so the other possibility is that it just sneaked by everyone.

In any event, I'm looking to acquire an F-169, in whatever condition.

I didn't know it was us Americans driving up prices, but they certainly have escalated, at least in some areas. Sorry about that. But look at it this way: with our horrid monetary policy, inflation is a matter of when, not if, and when it hits collectibles should go through the roof, so you can sell back to us!

F-numbers? AAAAGGGGHHHH! I love my pennies but just can't relate to raw reference, hence it took me about 20 minutes to decipher this post!

Anyway, going back to the original coin under scrutiny, I was talking to an old oppo of Rob's the other day re Soho proofs and patterns and since he's something of an expert I tend to listen to what he says on the subject, which was that anything less than hen's teeth rare and nigh on perfect may prove hard to shift as there aren't that many type collectors out there. Those that there are have by and large got the common stuff in better grade than you are likely to come across on the market. Deciphering all that, I think he would say don't touch it with a bargepole.

That's a fair point Derek, but if you're trying to build a new collection for yourself it doesn't help to know that all the other collectors already have wonderful examples! It might be better to deduce that, in building your collection, you should only buy the very best examples as these will be easier to shift in a very limited market.