Grading And A Pricing Query

[richtips86 25]

Hi all, so since my last post I have now ordered and received my Spink (2011) and am excitedly waiting for the grading book through the post that was suggested by someone previously. I have now started going through some coins that my granddad collected (though not as a hobby) and most date from the 1920s-60s though there are quite a few oldies going back to the 1880s, although their quality is terrible and am trying to work out their grade for practice. As such, I wonder if people could pass comment on what they think of the attached and how far off the mark I am (though they're not great resolution piccies - ps I haven't got an external system for pics yet, so will try to post them individually, replying to this message.

Untitled 1 - Fine

Untitled 2 - Unc

Untitled 3 - Poor

Also, I'm still to dip my toes into buying anything. I really want to, but don't want to come a cropper immediately and still not sure where my interests really like. However I have been looking at prices and reading up on things and am struggling to answer the following. I noticed that on a website (R Ingram Coins) they have an EF 1797 Penny listed at £195 (no pic unfortunately). According to my Spink (albeit 2011) a 1797 EF Penny is either £325 (with 10 leaves) or £400 (11 leaves). Why the huge discrepancy? I have read that coins come and go out of fashion, but should you expect such a huge depreciation in price in just three years and do you get such trends on these kinds of coins?

Thanks everyone! Really enjoying everything I'm reading and seeing!

Rich

[richtips86 25]

Second photo

[richtips86 25]

Photo 3

[Paulus 1,975]

Hi Rich

Based on the pics provided, and only seeing one side of the coins, I would take a stab at

1 - Fine

2 - GVF

3 - Fair

Spink's prices are a guide only and what you end up paying can vary significantly from the 'book' price for various reasons. Many people think that a lot of the Spink prices are 'optimistic' and you will find you can pick up many for considerably less than book. The penny you mention is £400 and £550 (for the 10 & 11 leaves respectively) in EF in Spink 2013 (anyone have the 2014 Spink values to hand?).

Grading is a biggie here, many dealers grade too generously, many deliberately, and Ingrams are not immune from this (in my opinion, and, I believe, that of others) ... their pics aren't very good either! Buyer beware! Their EF 1797 Penny pic appears to be unavailable on their website (as you say), I would ask them for a pic and post it on here for comments if you are still interested. Pics of the rim would also be useful, as there are very often bruises and knocks to the rims of the cartwheels, which affect their value significantly.

There has been some 'stagnation' in lower grade coins over recent years, some rapid inflation in top grade coins, but little or no depreciation in the Spink prices, or in those actually paid.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Paulus

[HistoricCoinage 146]

The penny you mention is £400 and £550 (for the 10 & 11 leaves respectively) in EF in Spink 2013 (anyone have the 2014 Spink values to hand?).

£425 and £600 respectively.

[richtips86 25]

Ok, thanks for the feedback re the coins. I think I went for Unc because it was so shiny (maybe that's not the best way of grading though!) Better wait for my grading book to come through before I try any further. And yes, that makes sense regarding the pricing. No I wasn't particularly interested in buying it, I just couldn't think of an explanation.

[Accumulator 52]

Hi Rich

Based on the pics provided, and only seeing one side of the coins, I would take a stab at

1 - Fine

2 - GVF

3 - Fair

Spink's prices are a guide only and what you end up paying can vary significantly from the 'book' price for various reasons. Many people think that a lot of the Spink prices are 'optimistic' and you will find you can pick up many for considerably less than book. The penny you mention is £400 and £550 (for the 10 & 11 leaves respectively) in EF in Spink 2013 (anyone have the 2014 Spink values to hand?).

Grading is a biggie here, many dealers grade too generously, many deliberately, and Ingrams are not immune from this (in my opinion, and, I believe, that of others) ... their pics aren't very good either! Buyer beware! Their EF 1797 Penny pic appears to be unavailable on their website (as you say), I would ask them for a pic and post it on here for comments if you are still interested. Pics of the rim would also be useful, as there are very often bruises and knocks to the rims of the cartwheels, which affect their value significantly.

There has been some 'stagnation' in lower grade coins over recent years, some rapid inflation in top grade coins, but little or no depreciation in the Spink prices, or in those actually paid.

Hi Rich, I wouldn't disagree with Paulus. I would say, though, that proper evaluation of the half crown would require a higher resolution photo. When grading above GVF, detail is everything (lion's faces etc.) and that just isn't discernible from the picture.

Regarding the cartwheels, Spink is a little optimistic on pricing. At any given time there are a large number on the market and just about every dealer has at least a couple, with eBay regularly listing dozens (in varying grade, of course). £200 is probably top whack for anything less than EF. Coins that are genuine EF to GEF will be around the Spink price you quote, with A/UNC examples £600+, and true UNC around £1,000. The discrepancy you mention is probably entirely down to grading stretch. As Paulus says, we really need a photo.

[Peckris 579]

Hi all, so since my last post I have now ordered and received my Spink (2011) and am excitedly waiting for the grading book through the post that was suggested by someone previously. I have now started going through some coins that my granddad collected (though not as a hobby) and most date from the 1920s-60s though there are quite a few oldies going back to the 1880s, although their quality is terrible and am trying to work out their grade for practice. As such, I wonder if people could pass comment on what they think of the attached and how far off the mark I am (though they're not great resolution piccies - ps I haven't got an external system for pics yet, so will try to post them individually, replying to this message.

Untitled 1 - Fine

Untitled 2 - Unc

Untitled 3 - Poor

Also, I'm still to dip my toes into buying anything. I really want to, but don't want to come a cropper immediately and still not sure where my interests really like. However I have been looking at prices and reading up on things and am struggling to answer the following. I noticed that on a website (R Ingram Coins) they have an EF 1797 Penny listed at £195 (no pic unfortunately). According to my Spink (albeit 2011) a 1797 EF Penny is either £325 (with 10 leaves) or £400 (11 leaves). Why the huge discrepancy? I have read that coins come and go out of fashion, but should you expect such a huge depreciation in price in just three years and do you get such trends on these kinds of coins?

Thanks everyone! Really enjoying everything I'm reading and seeing!

Rich

I'd say your grading is just about spot on. However, that St George reverse normally holds its detail very well, so though Fine is a good estimate I'd have to rate that About Fine. The 1967 halfcrown is probably About UNC, and you're right about the 1920 shilling - you can't read all the legend so Poor is spot on.

As for the 1797 penny, you should take a lot of Spink values with a very large pinch of salt. Look at its 1797 2d prices for example - you'd never see a dealer selling for those prices, as no-one would buy. You'll have to learn over time which are accurate prices, which are underestimates (not too many) and which are inflated. You've spotted one of the latter straight off, with the 1797 penny (though you would also have to be sure that the advertised coin really was EF - Spink are very conservative with their grades, unlike some dealers).

[copper123 1,485]

spink are quite expensive on their 1797 prices

when you come into the real world you find they are quite a bit cheaper.

this is not the only coin they over or under price it's done regular throughout the catalogue.

no publication it totally accurate , so you have to give a bit of leeway.

probaby searching compleated listings on ebay gives a better idea of value

[Rob 3,152]

spink are quite expensive on their 1797 prices

when you come into the real world you find they are quite a bit cheaper.

this is not the only coin they over or under price it's done regular throughout the catalogue.

no publication it totally accurate , so you have to give a bit of leeway.

probaby searching compleated listings on ebay gives a better idea of value

That is more likely to tell you what a lot of people (who haven't a clue) will bid for something based on the description rather than the object they are buying.

A rule of eBay is that something is likely to be overhyped as there is no protection arising from an incorrect description, unlike an auction through a conventional saleroom. Therefore, caution should prevail. Yes, you might have a pleasant surprise from time to time when you take a punt on a grotty image, but the majority of attempts would end in disappointment.

[richtips86 25]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Rich, it looks like you ordered your Standard Guide to Grading British Coins over predecimal.com, is that correct?

I tried to track one down, but wasn't successful! I'm going to have to refund you I'm afraid.

The eBook version is available, if that helps at all? (as epub or mobi via Amazon)

[richtips86 25]

Yes that's correct about ordering it via predecimal and absolutely no worries whatsoever. Thanks for the info, but I'm quite old school when it comes to my books. I'm guessing if you couldn't locate one, I'm going to struggle? Are there any other books that do a similar job that you'd recommend?

[Peckris 579]

Yes that's correct about ordering it via predecimal and absolutely no worries whatsoever. Thanks for the info, but I'm quite old school when it comes to my books. I'm guessing if you couldn't locate one, I'm going to struggle? Are there any other books that do a similar job that you'd recommend?

I have the feeling that Derek's book is unique - it was written to fill a gap in the market and because of demand. I think in this particular case you'll have to become 'new school'. I've got the latest CCGB as a Kindle book and haven't regretted it at all. It's my first coin ebook (not counting a pdf of Dalton and Hamer, and various BNJ Journal downloads). It's nice to have a reference on my computer that's 'right at my fingertips' so to speak.

[richtips86 25]

Oh wow, I've just lost my eBook virginity! Thanks for the prompting guys!

[Peckris 579]

Oh wow, I've just lost my eBook virginity! Thanks for the prompting guys!

And I just bet you can see it open on your desktop behind your browser - happy poring

[richtips86 25]

haha, it's like you've already known me for years!

[Chris Perkins 228]

You buy it through Amazon? The sold number just crept up by 1, so I imagine that was you! Sometimes the printed version is also on Amazon, but as it's a bit scarce, people tend to ask silly money for it.

I'll refund you the money for the failed buy. And I must also remember to remove it from sale.

[richtips86 25]

Yes that was me. Well to tell the truth, I'm probably going to be looking at buying something on your site again in the near future. I don't know how easy it is to refund, so if it's maybe easier to keep it as credit for some time in the near future? I don't know how these things work, but whatever works easiest for you is fine with me.

Cheers

[Chris Perkins 228]

Ok, but that means you'll have to let me know what you want beforehand as the system can't record a credit.

[richtips86 25]

Ok, maybe then if that case if you could refund and then when I know better, I'll just re-order.

Completely non coin related, but I don't suppose you have any connection with the University of Manchester? One of my lecturers had the same name and whilst I appreciate it's highly unlikely.....?

[Rob 3,152]

Mr Perkins is nothing like Mr Perkins.

[Chris Perkins 228]

I had heard that there was also a namesake at Manchester Uni. Not me.

[richtips86 25]

Can I ask what are people's thoughts on the following coin?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Superb-1806-George-III-Half-Penny-/201029077663?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item2ece444a9f

[Rob 3,152]

Can I ask what are people's thoughts on the following coin?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Superb-1806-George-III-Half-Penny-/201029077663?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item2ece444a9f

Superb? Date, monarch and denomination are correct though.