Two British Coins - Links To Pictures

[arthur42 0]

Hey everyone,

I posted this on another British coins forum but it seems that there is far less traffic there. I'm hoping for help determining the value of two coins. I'm an amateur coin collector and I'm an American so I'm not too familiar with the following coins. I found them in a "bargain bin" for a very low price. Non-American coins in this part of America are not highly demanded (fortunately for me).

In general, both my questions deal with, what if my coin is rare and collectible but is in a generally poor condition?

The first is an 1862 India Straits cent. Here is my photobucket for this coin: http://s65.photobucket.com/user/Arthur_Hatton/library/1862%20India%20Straits%20Cent

The second is an 1864 penny. I like this one and I realize this is a "good date," however, as you can see it is in generally poor condition, and there are scratches on it that seem deliberate. I chose these photographs because they highlight the damage, though from the naked eye they aren't *quite* as visible. http://s65.photobucket.com/user/Arthur_Hatton/library/1864%20Great%20Britain%20Penny

A little more about me - mostly I collect less expensive coins to teach my children history and geography (I don't want stereotypical American children - ignorant about the world around them!). I'll root through bargain coins to find interesting ones, and now and then I'll find coins worth a little more that I can sell - this helps me finance the rest of my hobby.

So since these two coins might be a little more valuable than my other coins (that are all worth a few cents at most), yet they may be less desirable due to the damage, I am not sure whether I should sell these or pass them down to my children.

[declanwmagee 122]

Welcome aboard Arthur!

I have no idea about the Straits coin - unless it is a serious rarity then grade probably consigns it to curiosity value. Somebody here will know though!

The 1864 is a good date, but it's one of those dates that is relatively common in your grade, but becomes one of the most difficult Bun Heads of all in higher grades. The gradient of scarcity (and thus of value) is steeper for the 1864 than for most dates in the series.

Incidentally, the 1864 comes in two flavours, the Upper Serif (referring to the shape of the 4), and Crosslet 4 varieties. Yours is the former, and is slightly commoner than the crosslet.

I expect you'd be disappointed with what they'd fetch - have a quick look at Completed Listings on ebay.co.uk and you'll get the picture. Keep 'em, I'd say.

[arthur42 0]

No, not disappointed at all, really. I paid $0.70 for that coin, so if it's worth anything more than that I'm happy. And indeed I will probably keep it. There is a local shop with a large box full of circulated large pennies - mostly British and Canadian - and they told me that they're not highly in demand at all. Thus he has been selling them to me quite cheap - I've picked out most of the pre-1900 ones.

I really like British pennies - they seem so much more interesting than American pennies, even from the same era. My family is British in origin - in fact, my grandmother is a British citizen. I was named after my great grandfather Arthur who was from Nottingham. So perhaps this is why I feel more of a connection with historic British coins. I wonder if this shop owner will just let me buy the whole box very cheap?

Thank you so much for the information. I take it that, generally, a coin in this kind of shape probably won't be worth much even if it is a scarce coin.

[Coinery 1,154]

Welcome aboard, Arthur, I hope you'll stay with us a while! Your clear love of history is precisely what links most of us here on this forum together, regardless of our fields of interest!

We have a number of regular US contributors here, who also collect UK/English/Scottish/Irish coinage, so you're not SO far from home.

In answer to one of your questions: typically, a low-grade rarity is still a low-grade coin, and doesn't necessarily attract a massive premium...however, there are some exceptions to this rule, where even washers, provided they are identifiable, will command a high price! You'll soon pick up on what they are if you read around the old posts here! To start you off, the 1903 (open 3) penny is always popular!

[arthur42 0]

Yes I have always had an intense love of history (though my profession is psychology). As a child I read books about the Punic Wars and the Byzantine Empire (I do have one Byzantine bronze follis featuring the unremarkable Emperor Phocas), and I did like to read lots of British history. The idea of holding or looking at something made hundreds or thousands of years ago really gets me excited. I'm glad I found this forum and will be coming back.

[Peckris 579]

I take it that, generally, a coin in this kind of shape probably won't be worth much even if it is a scarce coin.

Very interesting to read of your British connections, Arthur.

Yes, you're right that a scarce coin needs to be in a higher grade to be worth anything much. However, there are exceptionally rare varieties of some Victorian bun pennies that would fetch literally a few thousand $ even in the grade of your 1864. But as only a few of each exist, the chances of finding one are ... remote, to say the least!

[arthur42 0]

So I have a few more questions, then. I might as well ask here instead of starting a whole new thread.

I would really love to start a collection of older coins with a focus on Western Europe, especially Britain. Since I'm interested primarily for the purpose of history, I'd like to collect coins that are old (from many eras from the 1700s-1900s, but any time period would be wonderful, including ancient). However, I don't need to purchase rare coins, nor coins that are extremely high grade. I would be find with a collection of mostly VF coins.

Does anyone have any suggestions for coins I might look for particularly? They might be coins that are very common, but look nice and come from an interesting period of history - and are not too expensive (I'm talking about the equivalent of 6-10 pounds per coin). Any date runs that are popular, or places many collectors start?

[Paulus 1,975]

Hi Arthur

Welcome to this great forum! One type you may wish to consider are Conder tokens, issued in the late 18th century ... I find each one to be a very interesting and affordable piece of British history. They are mainly halfpennies, and can often be bought for £5-£10 in lower grades (certainly up to VF).

A good thread for you to look at might be this one (although most of the examples depicted here are very high grades):

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/8342-lets-see-your-copper-coins-tokens-or-medals/

[TomGoodheart 402]

Hi Arthur and welcome! I think the best idea is to have a look around for coins that appeal. Look at threads here for ideas and maybe buy a few cheap ones?

I myself have just recently started collecting coins by a theme more info in this thread

But I have encountered a slight problem, as I suspect you might, in that postage for a single coin can be as much or more than the coin itself! So I wonder if maybe buying a few would help you? eBay items can sometimes be combined but a dealer might be better. You may not have noticed but predecimal is also a sales site for Chris Perkins! I had a quick look and see you can pick up a BU 1965 shilling for £1.50 or a '53 halfpenny for £2.60.

I do find that, even though I can find weight and dimensions of a coin online, it's always more interesting to actually have one in my hand to examine. I know there are lots of other dealers (some on here too) but maybe PM Chris and see how much postage will cost you. I spent £30 on five coins from France and I have to say, it was fun and I think a good way to start my collection. You'll most always get better grades for the money from the country of origin.

And then when you have an idea of what coins you like the look of, just ask and we'll recommend books to go with them too! Just an idea!

Edited February 24, 2014 by TomGoodheart

[arthur42 0]

Yes, it would probably make sense to pay for a few rather than a single coin. Still, shipping over the Atlantic would cost me a little money. For the moment I've been enjoying searching local sources. The advantage is that nobody around here seems to want non-American coins, so I can get them pretty cheap. The disadvantage is that they're in generally poor condition, as they have not been taken care of. I think one interesting thing about having books with universal coin "values" is that it seems to de-emphasize the supply and demand of local markets. Locally I've heard that people have paid $10 for one page of American wheat cents with common dates, but completely pass over foreign coins that sometimes contain silver in them, just based on what local people want and don't want. It's mostly ignorance (genuine ignorance, but not stupidity), really, but partly just a natural local demand for American history and less of a concern for foreign things.

Those Conder tokens do look interesting, and I'll look at Chris Perkins' sales. If he puts together packages of reasonably-priced "starter kits" of a certain type of coin, maybe I could be persuaded to purchase one.

[TomGoodheart 402]

Locally I've heard that people have paid $10 for one page of American wheat cents with common dates, but completely pass over foreign coins that sometimes contain silver in them, just based on what local people want and don't want. It's mostly ignorance (genuine ignorance, but not stupidity), really, but partly just a natural local demand for American history and less of a concern for foreign things.

Ah yes. I remember an occasional comment on the coincommunity forum to that effect. It's odd that there are many that chase silver and yet they generally ignore coins like the Panama 'Balboa' which AFAIK were struck in the US (Philadelphia?) to the same standard as the US dollar...

[Peckris 579]

So I have a few more questions, then. I might as well ask here instead of starting a whole new thread.

I would really love to start a collection of older coins with a focus on Western Europe, especially Britain. Since I'm interested primarily for the purpose of history, I'd like to collect coins that are old (from many eras from the 1700s-1900s, but any time period would be wonderful, including ancient). However, I don't need to purchase rare coins, nor coins that are extremely high grade. I would be find with a collection of mostly VF coins.

Does anyone have any suggestions for coins I might look for particularly? They might be coins that are very common, but look nice and come from an interesting period of history - and are not too expensive (I'm talking about the equivalent of 6-10 pounds per coin). Any date runs that are popular, or places many collectors start?

If you're happy to be a 'type collector' rather than go for date runs, you might find that copper from 1800 - 1900 meets your requirements; start with the 1799 halfpenny (or 1797 cartwheel penny, though in VF that might cost you £25 - £35), and work through pennies, halfpennies and farthings of each major type and each reign. You're looking at a total collection of around 25 - 30 coins from 1797-1900.

[arthur42 0]

So I have a few more questions, then. I might as well ask here instead of starting a whole new thread.

I would really love to start a collection of older coins with a focus on Western Europe, especially Britain. Since I'm interested primarily for the purpose of history, I'd like to collect coins that are old (from many eras from the 1700s-1900s, but any time period would be wonderful, including ancient). However, I don't need to purchase rare coins, nor coins that are extremely high grade. I would be find with a collection of mostly VF coins.

Does anyone have any suggestions for coins I might look for particularly? They might be coins that are very common, but look nice and come from an interesting period of history - and are not too expensive (I'm talking about the equivalent of 6-10 pounds per coin). Any date runs that are popular, or places many collectors start?

If you're happy to be a 'type collector' rather than go for date runs, you might find that copper from 1800 - 1900 meets your requirements; start with the 1799 halfpenny (or 1797 cartwheel penny, though in VF that might cost you £25 - £35), and work through pennies, halfpennies and farthings of each major type and each reign. You're looking at a total collection of around 25 - 30 coins from 1797-1900.

Yes this seems like something I'd be interested in! I am not so interested in having every date, but maybe each reigning monarch and the major types of coin. That's something I'd love to have. I'll start looking into this. And it will have to be a long-term project of course - I'm a poor graduate student with two kids at the moment. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Coinery 1,154]

Well done you for getting to uni, and covering off the home essays/assignments/reading with two kids on board! There were a couple of women in my cohort who had kids at the time...amazing!

[arthur42 0]

Yes well, actually, the coin hobby has given me a bit of a reprieve. It's a lot of work and stress, so sitting quietly in a coin shop now and then and looking patiently through a box of old coins has a way of really refreshing me. Holding a piece of history puts my own life into perspective - everything I do goes in the historical record and will be there even after I'm gone (so it's worth it to work hard and do as well as I can). And it's a hobby that I can put money into, and the money in a sense "stays with me" because I could sell my collection at anytime. It's not like skiing or video games where I just put time/money into it and both are gone forever.

And I have a wonderful wife who does a great job with the kids when I'm not there.

But you are right, it's quite difficult. Luckily, I'm getting a doctorate in clinical psychology, so I sometimes have to use relaxation and stress management techniques on myself!

[TomGoodheart 402]

Luckily, I'm getting a doctorate in clinical psychology, so I sometimes have to use relaxation and stress management techniques on myself!

I've heard CBT can be very helpful

Coin Buying Therapy that is!

[Nordle11 564]

Luckily, I'm getting a doctorate in clinical psychology, so I sometimes have to use relaxation and stress management techniques on myself!

I've heard CBT can be very helpful

Coin Buying Therapy that is!

Touché that man.

[arthur42 0]

Heh, and I'm 15 minutes away from my CBT class, so... nice.