Possible Open 3 1863 Vic Penny.

[MACKSILKY. 6]

Hi guys just need a little help. I only have two 1863 pennies, the 3 looks slightly different, so i'm wondering if one is an open 3. All comments welcome, thanks james.

[Bronze & Copper Collector 413]

Neither is an open 3

[Nordle11 564]

It's hard to tell from the pictures, but I would say both are normal 1863. On the 'Open 3' I believe the tail of the '3' points to about 2pm on the circle of the '6' whereas on both of these, the tail points towards the start of the tip of the '6'. I hope that makes sense?

Please don't take my judgement as final, however, as I am relatively new to the game..

Matt

[Nordle11 564]

Neither is an open 3

Well, there you have it, with a bit more confidence might I add!

[VickySilver 836]

I always think of the bottom loop of the "3" as being hammered or beaten down flat ( ie open).

[Accumulator 52]

I completely agree with the above. On the basis that a picture paints a 1000 words, here's an 'open 3' (on the right), compared with a normal 3.

[Nordle11 564]

I completely agree with the above. On the basis that a picture paints a 1000 words, here's an 'open 3' (on the right), compared with a normal 3.

Haha funnily enough, it was your collection I was looking at Steve to give my above verdict

[Bronze & Copper Collector 413]

I'm on my cell phone , so it's difficult for me to link...but maybe someone can link to the images on Michael Goubys site.... He wrote the book...

I highly recommend it as it goes far past freeman which is also a must have..

else I'll do it over the weekend

[Accumulator 52]

I'm on my cell phone , so it's difficult for me to link...but maybe someone can link to the images on Michael Goubys site.... He wrote the book...

I highly recommend it as it goes far past freeman which is also a must have..

else I'll do it over the weekend

They're in his book, which I have here, but not on his site (as far as I can see). The book's well worth buying though, I agree!

Edited March 7, 2014 by Accumulator

[Bronze & Copper Collector 413]

I'm on my cell phone , so it's difficult for me to link...but maybe someone can link to the images on Michael Goubys site.... He wrote the book...

I highly recommend it as it goes far past freeman which is also a must have..

else I'll do it over the weekend

They're in his book, which I have here, but not on his site (as far as I can see). The book's well worth buying though, I agree!

You're correct... I thought he had an example imaged... I'll try to post a closeup over the weekend if no one else posts one first....

[davidrj 194]

I'm on my cell phone , so it's difficult for me to link...but maybe someone can link to the images on Michael Goubys site.... He wrote the book...

I highly recommend it as it goes far past freeman which is also a must have..

else I'll do it over the weekend

,

From Michael Gouby's book

Normal 3, Open 3, Narrow 3

David

[Bronze & Copper Collector 413]

I'm on my cell phone , so it's difficult for me to link...but maybe someone can link to the images on Michael Goubys site.... He wrote the book...

I highly recommend it as it goes far past freeman which is also a must have..

else I'll do it over the weekend

,

From Michael Gouby's book

Normal 3, Open 3, Narrow 3

David

Thank you David

[Nordle11 564]

I'm on my cell phone , so it's difficult for me to link...but maybe someone can link to the images on Michael Goubys site.... He wrote the book...

I highly recommend it as it goes far past freeman which is also a must have..

else I'll do it over the weekend

,

From Michael Gouby's book

Normal 3, Open 3, Narrow 3

David

Thanks David, really need to get myself Gouby's book...

[Bronze & Copper Collector 413]

If you examine the images you will note that the normal 3 has a straight downward stroke to the central diagonal line whereas the open 3 has a slight upward curve to it..

Additionally the normal 3 has a small downstroke at the top left end of the upper line of the 3 whereas the open 3 had a spikelike downstroke slightly to the right of the left end of the upper line of the 3 instead.

One must be very cautious when examining worn specimens as the upper end of the tail of the bottom stroke of the 3 is sometimes well worn and often barely visible. In these instances the diagonal of the 3 appears to point to a space as in the open 3 but in reality it is actually pointing to the well worn end of the 3.

All examples like this should be examined under high magnification.....

Edited March 7, 2014 by Bronze & Copper Collector

[MACKSILKY. 6]

Thank's guys for your help on this one, i guess i still have to search for an open 3. One more question i didn't know there was a narrow 3 is this rarer than an open 3?.

[Bronze & Copper Collector 413]

Thank's guys for your help on this one, i guess i still have to search for an open 3. One more question i didn't know there was a narrow 3 is this rarer than an open 3?.

Much rarer... I believe 2 known.. Again, I'm on my cell phone and don't have ready access to the information , so correct me if I'm wrong.. but I believe a CGS certified example sold at a London Coins auction for upwards of 20k within the past few years or so...

[Nordle11 564]

Thank's guys for your help on this one, i guess i still have to search for an open 3. One more question i didn't know there was a narrow 3 is this rarer than an open 3?.

Much rarer... I believe 2 known.. Again, I'm on my cell phone and don't have ready access to the information , so correct me if I'm wrong.. but I believe a CGS certified example sold at a London Coins auction for upwards of 20k within the past few years or so...

Correct sir.

http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=126&searchlot=1643&searchtype=2

They state that in the 2001 census this was the only one recorded, no other known. Fetched £19k, good memory.

[davidrj 194]

One must be very cautious when examining worn specimens as the upper end of the tail of the bottom stroke of the 3 is sometimes well worn and often barely visible. In these instances the diagonal of the 3 appears to point to a space as in the open 3 but in reality it is actually pointing to the well worn end of the 3.

All examples like this should be examined under high magnification.....

My worn example

David

[Bernie 203]

Definitely at least two known,

Bernie...

[declanwmagee 122]

I thought this was worth a punt to have a close look at the 3 in hand...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/penny-1863-coin-Queen-Victoria-/251640274598?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item3a96eddea6&autorefresh=true

[Bronze & Copper Collector 413]

Not an open 3 from what I can see....

[declanwmagee 122]

Thanks for that - I am sure you're right, but for £4 it's all good practice!