Storage And Security

[Dan1 0]

Hi all

I have been busy buying up more 1960's coins, so not quite zero anymore, but still only a small selection.

At this point I thought it could be worth asking your opinions on storage and security. Are there any recommendations what to keep coins in, where to have them and plus, would you keep them in a safe?

My house is a relatively new build, so i only have an attic and no cellar. I have an area idea for a safe in my attic, but it would be a pain to regularly go up there to organise my coins, so there would have to be an enjoyment/security trade off.

Again really i have no idea, so any advice would be great.

Thanks

Dan

[sound 25]

Dan,

It obviously depends on what you are prepared to spend on your collection. Here's some thoughts.

Before you start with a safe think about insurance. At the moment you don't need to worry about either, from what you have said, what you have will be covered under your home insurance policy.

If your collection increases in value, think market value, not what you pay for items, you may need to obtain cover under the all risks section of your policy. Do read the small print. Consider single items, how valuable etc. You should be able to obtain cover up £30,000 for just a few pound a year on your all risks section of your contents policy. Come back to me on this if you have problems. I have experience in a previous life.

If your collection grows in real value, think thousands not hundreds, then a safe would be wise. Look at your contents insurance policy. In any case a good safe can be obtained for under £ 300. Get one that screws into the floor and and wall.

Keep your insurance company informed if your collection mounts in value, not your broker. Your contract is between you and your insurance provider.

Keep a record of your collection. I keep mine on a spread sheet. Include what you paid, market value( subjective I know). Might get a good idea to back it up with photos. Do keep this receipts.

Come back if you need more.

Regards

Mark

[TomGoodheart 402]

I reckon storage is largely down to personal preference, though price and long term flexibility might be a consideration.

Options range from a few pence (Colin Cooke sell acid-free envelopes suitable for coins, though obviously you can't view them without taking them out, at least there's plenty of space to write notes for your records!) to a personally made coin cabinet. I have one of Peter Nichols' The advantage is that you can select trays with coin recesses to the size you wish. In my case, all my coins are the same denomination, so the trays are the same. It has a traditional feel, helped by the fact that I use coin 'tickets'; small paper discs upon which you can write information about your coin. As several of my coins came with earlier collectors' tickets I think it's a nice way to store them all.

My 'secondary' collection is made up of coins of differing sizes and so I use a similar system to many others in that the coins are in 2x2s. Called 2x2s because they are around 2 inches square. Usually these are card with mylar windows:

though I have some plastic ones I bought years ago. Mine then sit in coin storage trays (Chris sells the Lindner version) though some people use albums (like photo albums but with little pockets in the pages as pictured above) to hold the 2x2s, which can be a bit cheaper.

Another option is to use coin trays but with round recesses to hold the coins directly or in plastic 'capsules' Again, Chris's supplies (click on the predecimal.com link top of the page) include these.

Main thing is to ensure you use new products that were designed for coin storage as these will be safe (no pvc or acids that can damage the coin).

Finally, there are coin 'flips' transparent plastic envelopes or double envelopes (one for the coin, one for a card to write details on). If you buy mylar ones these should be safe, but I'd suggest not using ones you might receive coins in when you buy them as it's difficult to know if they contain pvc. Paper envelopes from dealers and auction houses should in theory be acid free and hence safe!

As sound says, best to consider record keeping now as part of your storage and security. So it's worth keeping records of what you have, where you got it and how much it cost. Additional details like grade, likely value .. up to you. I use an excel spreadsheet, coin tickets, photographs and retain receipts/ copies of ebay/ dealer listings and keep electronic copies on memory sticks. Recreating records later after you've bought a few dozen coins will be tedious, a few hundred .. well, like I say, best start now! Also gives you a way to keep track of what you have (avoiding duplicates) and what's needed.

The collection might be worth but a few quid now but .. who knows what it might cost you to replace it I a few years time?

.

Edited March 22, 2014 by TomGoodheart

[Nicholas 51]

Alternatively place your entire collection in a portable box and keep it in your banks security deposit box room for say 100-200 GBP per annum (less than insurance).

[TomGoodheart 402]

Alternatively place your entire collection in a portable box and keep it in your banks security deposit box room for say 100-200 GBP per annum (less than insurance).

My only reservations about that is that the bank I use simply place cases in a storage area where staff come and go all day. As far as I can tell, it isn't protected in any way from damp, flooding etc.

And most banks seem to be removing the facility. I had to opt for a town miles away as no banks where I live offer safe storage. Not very convenient if you, like me, enjoy looking at your coins regularly. Plus there's an 'inspection' fee of a few quid.

My thinking is that my coins are circulated and have survived being handled for many generations and part of the pleasure of having a collection is to be able to look at it. Others may feel differently.

Plus I get several £000 coverage as part of my home insurance. Only items over £1000 individual value need specifying, so depending on how soon you start buying serious rarities or gold you may find your home insurance adequate.

Bottom line is collecting should be a pleasure. If having your coins in a bank helps you sleep easier, great. If you like to access them when you want, keeping the fact that you collect quiet (people can get strange ideas about the value of coin collections) and concealing them at home may be adequate. Your choice.

[Rob 3,152]

At this stage, security is not a problem as any measures taken will far outweigh the replacement cost. Contents Insurance should cover small collections, though it would still be worth checking with the insurers.

Presentation - really depends on how much you want to spend on it. Personally I like the traditional cabinet, so have a mahogany one myself. 50cm high x 50 wide x 30 deep is sufficient for around 500-1500 coins depending on the size of holes in the trays. A broad selection is good for 1000-1100. It isn't as expensive as you might think as you can buy a new one for £300-450(?) and second hand between 2 & 300. In the future, should you go down the route of putting things in the bank then 2x2 envelopes in a stock box is best.

A bank box starts at about £150 and up per annum depending on the size. The bottom figure is good for around 4 stock boxes plus a few odds and sods. By the time you would be looking at a bank box, the contents insurance will no longer apply. At this point, a specialist insurer would be better than the bucket shops who can't relate to collections easily. Rates are typically 1/2% of the sum insured if kept in the home, reducing to 1/4% for that in a bank. They are quite flexible, so will permit you to mix and match with say e.g. 10% of the collection being out of the bank at any time and the premium will reflect what you have agreed. You still need the insurance as the T&Cs of the bank box don't give insurance for contents. As for TG's comment about storage inside the bank being in an open area, this will vary from bank to bank. My box at the bank requires two separate keys to gain access (mine and the bank's), so obviously it depends on the bank in question. Also, banks are trying to phase them out so it is difficult to find one these days.

[Nicholas 51]

My bank one block away is like a mini Fort Knox. Two keys. One giant safe door and 3 sizes of deposit boxes that vary in price accordingly. There are no inspection fees and I visit 1-3 times a week depending. I guess I have a quality not quantity collection so fits into a medium box. Cost is 150GBP pa. I've usually got a coin or two at home for the microscope inspection. ..insurance would be a bomb..

[Rob 3,152]

My bank one block away is like a mini Fort Knox. Two keys. One giant safe door and 3 sizes of deposit boxes that vary in price accordingly. There are no inspection fees and I visit 1-3 times a week depending. I guess I have a quality not quantity collection so fits into a medium box. Cost is 150GBP pa. I've usually got a coin or two at home for the microscope inspection. ..insurance would be a bomb..

Visiting costs are a pain here as it costs £10 each time you go, but within the overall context of the collection is not much as that is only the equivalent of £4K insured value premium each time. We must be about the only place that charges them - probably another example of the cross-subsidy culture within the banking system. As always there is a general resentment at un-necessary charges. Given there is always someone on duty at the safe area and it can operate as a self contained cost centre, the £10 isn't to cover exceptional expenses.

[Nicholas 51]

Oh my safety deposit box is accessible during bank hours.

[Gary 7]

Good advice given above but I think a bit too advanced. You say that you have been busy buying coins from the 60's, a good place to start, but certainly nothing to start worring about insurance, bank vaults and the likes of.

First of, coins are made of metal. All metals react to the enviroment to some degree, depending on the type of metal that is used. Gold is pretty much inert but the base metals such as copper or zinc can have violent reactions to the wrong enviroment rendering them worthless. So the first rule of storage is a stable enviroment, low humidity and not too much swing in the ambient temperature. That rules out the attic I would say, unless of cause its well insulated and heated.

2x2 Flips have been mentioned above and these are good as they can be stored in purpose made albums and boxes and the coin can be viewed without touching it.

There are two types of these, one is stapeled together and the other is self adhesive. Both have thier advantages and disadvantages. The stapeled sort are not 100% sealed but the coin can be removed and replaced without damaging the it. The self-adhesive type is 100% sealed but has to be cut open to remove the coin rendering it usless afterwards.

Another alternative is the coin capsule, I dont think that has been mentioned above. These come in all sizes and can be obtained relatively cheaply. They can be stored in a coin cabinet or small easily portable suitcase with purpose made trays. Chris, the owner of this site does a pretty good deal on the Lindner range, one of the leading manufactures, so have a look there to get an idea.

But when it boils down to it, its just a matter of personal preference taking into account that nearly all coins will suffer in a bad enviroment!

[TomGoodheart 402]

Also, banks are trying to phase them out so it is difficult to find one these days.

If you did ever want one, physically older branches in market towns might be your best bet. None of the branches that have been built in my town since the late 1970s seem to have been designed with space for such a facility, whereas in my Grandparent's day it was routine for the Manager to offer, not only to store documents for known customers, but small valuables as well as part of the service.

I'm sure Coutts still do. If you bank with them! Other banks that have them, there is often a waiting list.

An alternative is that in some cities there are independent companies that let people to store jewellery etc in facilities like that Rob described with secure dual key, 24 hour access. But I don't think they are yet common nationwide. Bit of a gap in the market, maybe?

For many, particularly those starting out collecting, I suspect that keeping quiet about collecting, having decent home security (perhaps including an alarm system if you don't own the Hound of the Baskervilles like Peter does) and making sure you check what's covered on your home insurance policy, will do.

I'm sure we discussed this topic before and my conclusion was that there's no fun in collecting if it then makes you nervous about security or you can't discuss your purchases with close friends. But everyone is different. IMHO.

.

Edited March 23, 2014 by TomGoodheart

[Dan1 0]

Thanks for the full spectrum of advice.

I always thought that using banks for storage was something that happens in Bond films over in tax havens on the continent. I dont think I will be at that point anytime soon, i should imagine a collection to have a value of at least £10k before this becomes a consideration maybe. I can see how the collection values increase rapidly as I am already finding the coins are getting incrementally more expensive each year, so an expensive collection doesnt seem that difficult to achieve.

The cabinets look good and i am going to check out the trays on here too.

Thanks again

[jaggy 528]

I store my coins in Leuchterm trays. These are then placed in a fairly heavy duty safe that I own.

I would suggest that you revisit the idea of having a safe. This is not just for your coins and not just for theft prevention. A safe protects all kinds of objects and papers from other hazards such as fire or flood.

For security ... best thing is to get some ADT Alarm stickers for your door/window. Thinking that a house is alarmed will sned 99% of potential thieves to the house next door. And, unless your collection is worth serious money, the professionals will go elsewhere,

[Peckris 579]

On the subject of insurance - for now it's good advice to get the maximum valuables cover on your home contents, but make sure you get confirmation from the insurance that the "single item limit" applies to individual coins not the whole collection. They have no real justification for trying to claim that a disparate collection assembled over years and comprising individual coins from a variety of sources, is a 'single item' other than that they are insurers and that's what they do. Argue the toss with them and make sure you get written confirmation that individual coins are 'single items'.

[bhx7 222]

Just bringing this topic back as I have a question about capsules. I have most of my coins in 2x2 flips housed in sheets and have just started to think about getting the better coinage into Square Quadrum Capsules so i can house them into coin trays. I am planning on housing all my pennies first and have noticed that different places give diffeerent size for pennies. Some say you should use the 30mm and some say the 31mm. I know that bronze pennies should be about 30.8mm or so. Which one is right? Anyone use these for their bronze coinage? Any advice appreciated.

[PWA 1967 2,135]

31 Brian.

Andy jack on ebay.

[bhx7 222]

Thats were I just bought my 4 trays from. Thanks again Pete, your a Gent.

[Nonmortuus 900]

It is slightly cheaper to buy driect from his site http://www.coingallery.co.uk/

[argentumandcoins 70]

Alternatively you could shop via your host and click onto the predecimal shop!

[PWA 1967 2,135]

Alternatively you could shop via your host and click onto the predecimal shop!

Sorry thats my fault i didnt know chris did the quadrum ones.

[Paulus 1,975]

John's back on patrol

[bhx7 222]

Will check out here too ?

[Nonmortuus 900]

Has someone got the link to the Quadrums on here then please as I cannot find them. Thanks

[bhx7 222]

I can't find them. Maybe its just me?

[Nordle11 564]

No can't find them either, sorry!