Comments/opinions Invited

[azda 979]

I've been buying some proof sets (1927 types) but i recently bought into the 2009 Kew gardens hype and bought an Executive proof set for what seems to be a reasonable price considering what the RM sell them for amd what they go for on fleabay.

My question is, do you think the hype for the Kew gardens 50p will tapfer off like it did with the undated 20p?

(null)

Edited May 27, 2014 by azda

[Colin G. 147]

In my opinion it depends on whether the issue continues to get publicised. Collectors know the reality of the scarcity, as we did around the 20p mule, but as long as it remains in the awareness of the public the prices will continue to be maintained. Once the fascination drops away then it will be down to collectors to determine the market value.

[Colin88 54]

I've been buying some proof sets (1927 types) but i recently bought into the 2009 Kew gardens hype and bought an Executive proof set for what seems to be a reasonable price considering what the RM sell them for amd what they go for on fleabay.

My question is, do you think the hype for the Kew gardens 50p will tapfer off like it did with the undated 20p?

(null)

Yup........

[copper123 1,486]

funny enough it is not the proofs and the special coins minted for collectors that are rare with the kew 50p it is CIRCULATION coins but non collectors don't get this and get sucked into buying the royal mint tat .

Surprise, surprise

[Nicholas 51]

When the 20p mule was first discovered, there was a small window of frenzied hype and high rarity speculation as there was no real data to estimate the numbers out there. Once they started popping up all over the place and then more so when the Royal Mint itself recognised the mule and estimated the mintage based on mintage time then things calmed down. It's now listed in Spink and £100.

Still, I'm fascinated looking at one. Amazing phenomenon in these days.

[Rob 3,152]

When the 20p mule was first discovered, there was a small window of frenzied hype and high rarity speculation as there was no real data to estimate the numbers out there. Once they started popping up all over the place and then more so when the Royal Mint itself recognised the mule and estimated the mintage based on mintage time then things calmed down. It's now listed in Spink and £100.

Still, I'm fascinated looking at one. Amazing phenomenon in these days.

A mule is one of the few errors genuinely attributable to human action for the mint to produce as it requires someone to fail to discard the old die, or alternatively remove the die put it in the wrong bin. Inverted die axis is the other main human manufactured error and I suspect the chances of it happening are inversely proportional to the size of the die because it depends on the visual recognition of the detail. Disregard things such as flawed dies or brockages because these are where the equipment was working happily until the die started to disintegrate from wear or the coin failed to be ejected after being struck i.e. they are random events.

One-off die pairs are usually the result of someone playing games as the presses are geared up for mass production and not striking single coins (as they have been for over 200 years).

[azda 979]

Well after thinking it over i'm going to sell this set on and put the funds towards another proof set, hopefully something like an 1889 or 1902, these will obviously hold their value much better, i really only bought this as it was cheap as chips.

[Peckris 579]

Well after thinking it over i'm going to sell this set on and put the funds towards another proof set, hopefully something like an 1889 or 1902, these will obviously hold their value much better, i really only bought this as it was cheap as chips.

Let me know when you find the 1889 set ... and ask the seller if he has any more?

[azda 979]

Typo.......1887

[Ipcress 2]

funny enough it is not the proofs and the special coins minted for collectors that are rare with the kew 50p it is CIRCULATION coins but non collectors don't get this and get sucked into buying the royal mint tat .

Surprise, surprise

I once had a collector of modern proof and Royal Mint sets telling me that he expected to make a profit on his purchases and sell them at auction well above bullion / scrap value. Apart from the odd set in recent years, the vast majority i've seen are below their RRP.

It's a bit - and i say a bit - like 50's and 60's diecasts. If you're lucky enough to have them in good boxed condition then you could sell them to collectors for a tidy sum but it's far too late in the game to be buying them now and expecting to make a retirement fund from them.

Most of these recent oddities just leave me non-plussed. That thing about the £2 coin and the Queen's earrings...although one with the portrait on the date side recently made £25 on Ebay

[Peckris 579]

funny enough it is not the proofs and the special coins minted for collectors that are rare with the kew 50p it is CIRCULATION coins but non collectors don't get this and get sucked into buying the royal mint tat .

Surprise, surprise

I once had a collector of modern proof and Royal Mint sets telling me that he expected to make a profit on his purchases and sell them at auction well above bullion / scrap value. Apart from the odd set in recent years, the vast majority i've seen are below their RRP.

It's a bit - and i say a bit - like 50's and 60's diecasts. If you're lucky enough to have them in good boxed condition then you could sell them to collectors for a tidy sum but it's far too late in the game to be buying them now and expecting to make a retirement fund from them.

Most of these recent oddities just leave me non-plussed. That thing about the £2 coin and the Queen's earrings...although one with the portrait on the date side recently made £25 on Ebay

Absolutely spot on. And it's down to Spinks that these modern commems are listed with artificially high values; their catalogue never shows them at any less than issue price 'plus something for inflation'. Yet collectors and dealers who attend auctions know full well that you can (for example) pick proof sets up for half list price or even less. The so-called secondary market dictates the true value of these modern issues, and despite supposedly 'low issue numbers' in the case of piedforts and silver proofs, there are more than enough collectors to satisfy demand.

The Royal Mint once tried to set up a 'Collectors Club' for their tat - I don't know if it's still in existence. Still, I suppose if even a small fraction of those got turned on to 'proper' coins, it perhaps wasn't a complete waste of time.

[Ipcress 2]

The market is absolutely saturated with piedforts and proofs.

Aesthetically, most of them are vanilla coins. Have very little going for them. Even in 25 years there will be so many in pristine condition that demand won't be high enough. You can go to auctions now and there are 30-50 of the damn things in a box.

Might as well invest in a nice Edward VII crown and admire it's beauty at the same time.

r.e Spinks - i think it's poor practice. Like other auction houses who take in gold and reserve the price at scrap value, BV + 20% - surely that madness has to end. Don't see it as much as i did three or four years ago though.

[DaveG38 405]

funny enough it is not the proofs and the special coins minted for collectors that are rare with the kew 50p it is CIRCULATION coins but non collectors don't get this and get sucked into buying the royal mint tat .

Surprise, surprise

I once had a collector of modern proof and Royal Mint sets telling me that he expected to make a profit on his purchases and sell them at auction well above bullion / scrap value. Apart from the odd set in recent years, the vast majority i've seen are below their RRP.

It's a bit - and i say a bit - like 50's and 60's diecasts. If you're lucky enough to have them in good boxed condition then you could sell them to collectors for a tidy sum but it's far too late in the game to be buying them now and expecting to make a retirement fund from them.

Most of these recent oddities just leave me non-plussed. That thing about the £2 coin and the Queen's earrings...although one with the portrait on the date side recently made £25 on Ebay

Absolutely spot on. And it's down to Spinks that these modern commems are listed with artificially high values; their catalogue never shows them at any less than issue price 'plus something for inflation'. Yet collectors and dealers who attend auctions know full well that you can (for example) pick proof sets up for half list price or even less. The so-called secondary market dictates the true value of these modern issues, and despite supposedly 'low issue numbers' in the case of piedforts and silver proofs, there are more than enough collectors to satisfy demand.

The Royal Mint once tried to set up a 'Collectors Club' for their tat - I don't know if it's still in existence. Still, I suppose if even a small fraction of those got turned on to 'proper' coins, it perhaps wasn't a complete waste of time.

It certainly existed up to about 2006, as my father-in-law was a member. However, he didn't buy the usual tat from the RM, but focussed on high value gold. In all, he bought around £10k worth and with gold prices going the way they have, even allowing for the more recent drop in price, the collection is still worth around £30k.

Edited June 4, 2014 by DaveG38

[Garrett 76]

The market is absolutely saturated with piedforts and proofs.

One redeeming feature (apart from Peck's point that more people may be drawn to the hobby) of the shiny multi-coloured pieces of shite is that it may draw the pure investor/superannuation dollars away.

People with money to invest and no interest to gain knowledge in coins may 'invest' their money in this stuff, and not push the price of our coins up too much !!

[Ipcress 2]

Yes, agreed.

I think there has been an influx of amateur investors in the market in recent years. They're GEF is a graders GVF and it's pushed prices up with Ebay playing it's part int he last decade.

" Mint Proof with COA !!! "

Wow.

[Nordle11 564]

Yes, agreed.

I think there has been an influx of amateur investors in the market in recent years. They're GEF is a graders GVF and it's pushed prices up with Ebay playing it's part int he last decade.

" Mint Proof with COA !!! "

Wow.

Surely the only people paying the "pushed up" prices for the over-graded coins are the amateur investors themselves? I know I certainly don't bid more on a GEF coin just because some pillock has graded it as aUNC.

While grading is very subjective, it doesn't detract from my ability to assign a price that I would pay for any coin to go into my collection.