Would like some help with this James 1st Laurel

[srh11293 0]

This is my first post and I was hoping someone can answer few questions related to this coin.

I purchased this Laurel in Paris about 10 years ago. But really never closely looked at it. I know it's kinda silly, but I love the coin, so I bought it, and put it away.

Recently, I pulled it out of the safe and was thinking about getting it slabbed by NCG. After doing some research on the web, I found 2 almost identical Laurels. As far as I understand, there were 5 different busts and (about) 5 different mint marks. Also, within the 'same' bust style and within the same mint marks, there are differences in inscription (FRA vs FRAN, HI vs HIB, etc.).

Description: "James I, Gold Laurel, third coinage (1619-1625), fourth laureate and draped bust left, straight ties at back of head, value behind, within beaded circle, initial mark trefoil (1624-1625) both sides, iacobvs d g ma bri fran et hib rex, pellet stops, rev crowned quartered shield of arms, on long cross fourchée, beaded circle surrounding, facia m eos in gentem vnam, no stops, (Schneider -; N 2114; S 2638B)"

Also, this particular coin is very very double struck, especially on reverse - you can see two rows of beads near 8 o'clock and 1 o'clock. You can see the the tips of the cross are not (way off) aligned with arms of the cross, etc.

Also, obverse and reverse are 90% off - the top of the crown matches up with "D" in "JACOBUS D G MA"

I would love to hear comments on this coin, but I have two particular questions:

1) Should this coin be graded as "MINT ERROR"? (I believe so, since it's obviously double struck and rotated)

2) How would one go about assigning a grading to a coins like this? Would a second strike to the reverse flatten out the obverse? From what I have seen, these coins were known to be weak struck which might explain the flatness of the bust, yet the letters in the inscription around the perimeter are nice and sharp.

Thank you in advance,

Vlad

[TomGoodheart 444]

I'll let more experienced members comment on the coin itself. Though very very double struck is an overstatement. I have several coins far worse. The orientation is normal. Hammered coins, the top die was just dropped onto the lower and so obverse and reverse alignment was largely down to chance.

But in the meantime, I'm curious why you want it slabbed?

If you mean to sell it in the US, fine. In the UK, a slab will make no difference (apart from costing you for the pleasure) as virtually all collectors are likely to just break it out again.

For protection, a capsule will do the job and it'd be cheaper.

If you want reassurance it's genuine, I suspect some members here can provide that.

And if you really want it slabbed for the fun of it, CGS are UK based and more experienced in British coinage than NGC. Slightly less risk in sending coins to London than Paris or the US from the UK.

[Rob 3,228]

Double striking occurs more often than not with hammered coins of any size, so this isn't a mint error. The depth of strike frequently varies across the flan, so parts can be well struck alongside flat bits. It usually took more than one hammer blow to make the coin, so any movement by the person holding the upper die is seen as double striking. The die axis depended entirely on how the upper die was held relative to the lower fixed die, so rotation is normal.

Your coin is fine. There is considerably more detail on a well struck unworn coin.

[Garrett 76]

Welcome to the forum Vlad !

It's a nice coin, I like those and wouldn't mind getting one sometime down the track too.

Hammered coins are all over the place (double struck, alignment, softly struck and well struck patches on the same coin, clipped etc) which is one of their endearing features.

Cheers

Garrett.

[srh11293 0]

Thank you very mich for the replies. I'm used to US coins (19th century), so the double strike on this coins was very pronounced to me. As far as to why I was thinking about getting it slabbed, I like vacuum sealled packages. They seem to offer very good protection for the coins. I agree, in this case, slabbing is probably not that important. Since I live in Texas, NGC or PCGS are more familiar to me than CGS.

Vlad

[Rob 3,228]

Why not keep it in a capsule? Vacuum sealed won't make any difference to the gold which will not change its colour appreciably any time soon. Sending it off to the TPGs wil cost money, but confer little value. The grade is not sufficiently high to risk changing its value when handling it.

I realise US collectors like a fixed number on their coins, but this number is a total lottery when it comes to the US TPGs. Personally I think it is a waste of time and money to get it slabbed as it has considerable wear meaning you won't get a high number/high price for it. The vast majority of US TPG slabbed hammered coins are way overgraded by British standards.

[Nicholas 51]

Since you live in the the US and it's seems to be something you keep for investment only then why not slab it. I would recommend NGC that has a bigger population of UK coins.

They will authenticate the coin as well. Certainly I'd need to see it in person, but there's a couple of small things about it that look a touch suspicious - (but my likely assessment is that it's OK)

[JPK 3]

Mmm I thought it looked a bit suspicious too,there's a lot of discolouration I wouldn't expect to see on it,but I'm no expert.

[azda 983]

Hello and welcome. If you've already had the coin for 10 years raw then why feel the need now to slab it? Is it for authenticity purposes?

[Nicholas 51]

Authentication, long term storage but most importantly if you're selling in the US you must first slab it else the number of buyers is dramatically reduced.

[azda 983]

Authentication, long term storage but most importantly if you're selling in the US you must first slab it else the number of buyers is dramatically reduced.

But if he's already had it for 10 years raw i'd see no point now for a slab if it was just for storage, unless as you say that its for selling on

[srh11293 0]

I do not plan on selling this coin anytime soon, nor do I consider it to be an investment (not UNC, not rare --> not enough value to consider as an investment). To me, this UK coin is a memory of pleasant trip to Paris ...yes I do see the irony in what I just said. Besides storage and ease of handling, slabbing also has a benefit of association of that coin with me, if it ever gets stolen, at least it can be reported as such, with an identifying number. Few years ago some of my coins were stolen, luckily, most of the coins over few hundred dollars were not at my house (including this one).

[Rob 3,228]

If it was stolen in a slab, the slab would disappear. Many coins formerly entombed in a slab are now free. Breaking it out would be the first thing the thief would do.

[Peter 615]

You know what it is and grade.

Slabbing would be futile.

On the question of selling it would probably do OK in DNW or London Coins auction.

I think it is a nice affordable coin.