1863 One Penny Help?

[DaveyJones 1]

Hey guys,

Recently had an interest in coins and started looking around the house for some old coins I had laying around.
I was searching through some old coins from metal detecting and this one penny was found in my garden.

After doing a bit of research into the coin I noticed many didn't have a marking under the date, a closer look it seems to be the number 4? It's not really clear on the photograph but i'll try get a more detailed photo if you need it.

I researched abit and found this article which seems very similar to my penny apart from the number being different.

Anyway I was hoping someone could possibly give me some more information at all?

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_14085654596436&key=ad2afc48cb2a0d04b9b54aa89d0764f6&libId=7770036b-414e-4d55-8665-11a0b3cc5e19&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coincommunity.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic.asp%3FTOPIC_ID%3D184838&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coinlink.com%2FNews%2Fworld-coins%2Funique-unrecorded-1863-penny-sold-for-a-record-17500%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coincommunity.com%2Fforum%2Fforum.asp%3FFORUM_ID%3D36&title=1863%20One%20Penny%20Die%20Number%20-%20Coin%20Community%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coinlink.com%2FNews%2Fworld-...ecord-17500%2F

[Peckris 579]

4 is known, and not as rare as the 5 in that article, but it would still be rare. However, it doesn't look quite straight to my eyes - can you zoom in, macro-style, and get a close-up of the date?

The penny has the characteristic green of a long buried bronze coin. That's a chemical reaction probably similar to verdigris, but in the case of burials, where exposure to air is not a factor, the process has become inert and though the green is permanent, it won't deteriorate further.

[DaveyJones 1]

Well that's a nice bit of information I didn't know before so thank you. What condition would you say the coin is in from the current pictures and does this coin have much value if it is the number 4? I will upload more detailed pictures tomorrow evening once I get some batteries for my good camera (These were taken on my phone).

[Peckris 579]

Well that's a nice bit of information I didn't know before so thank you. What condition would you say the coin is in from the current pictures and does this coin have much value if it is the number 4? I will upload more detailed pictures tomorrow evening once I get some batteries for my good camera (These were taken on my phone).

Without the green, the penny would be Fine/Fair (obverse/reverse). But it is green... So, if it's not a 4, it would have virtually no monetary value but would certainly be an interesting keepsake. If it IS a 4, then it's a different matter entirely. The coin - even in that condition - would have a rarity value and should be entered into an auction, e.g. London Coins, once it's been officially verified. You're talking hundreds of pounds, possibly creeping up to 4 figures if the right bidders are there?

[bronze mad 4]

Hey guys,

Recently had an interest in coins and started looking around the house for some old coins I had laying around.

I was searching through some old coins from metal detecting and this one penny was found in my garden.

After doing a bit of research into the coin I noticed many didn't have a marking under the date, a closer look it seems to be the number 4? It's not really clear on the photograph but i'll try get a more detailed photo if you need it.

I researched abit and found this article which seems very similar to my penny apart from the number being different.

Anyway I was hoping someone could possibly give me some more information at all?

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_14085654596436&key=ad2afc48cb2a0d04b9b54aa89d0764f6&libId=7770036b-414e-4d55-8665-11a0b3cc5e19&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coincommunity.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic.asp%3FTOPIC_ID%3D184838&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coinlink.com%2FNews%2Fworld-coins%2Funique-unrecorded-1863-penny-sold-for-a-record-17500%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coincommunity.com%2Fforum%2Fforum.asp%3FFORUM_ID%3D36&title=1863%20One%20Penny%20Die%20Number%20-%20Coin%20Community%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coinlink.com%2FNews%2Fworld-...ecord-17500%2F

You found it in your garden? can i bring my detector round to your garden! lol

A Peckris said before can you take a real good close up photo of the date so we can see it more clearly, and if that is a 4 then there is only one or two of these know so far, so it will be extremley rare.

[PWA 1967 2,135]

Looks like a four but need a close up,could be very scarce.

[PWA 1967 2,135]

Sorry bronze mad for repeating you

[DaveyJones 1]

Feel free to come round Bronze Mad haha, must have been 5 years ago at least when I found this coin. Had it sitting amongst some others in a tin, wish I took a bit more care of it now. I tried my best to get a good shot and hopefully it's good enough, definetly looks like a four to me!

[PWA 1967 2,135]

Not sure now..Would feel in hand the best thing is to send to cgs. Does not look right to me.However i am normally wrong

[Martinminerva 330]

It is most definitely a die number 4, and therefore one heck of a find. Michael Gouby in his latest penny book reports that 15 of this die number are known (so now 16, I guess!), which is the most "common" of all the die numbered 1863 pennies , but nevertheless there'll be a lot of people on this forum well impressed - me included. He values them at £600 in fair and £1250 in fine, so I would think this one out of the ground and in about fair condition might be worth £500 or so. But if you put it into auction, you never know what might happen if two ardent penny collectors battle over it - and there's every chance of that given some previous auction results. Well done!!

[PWA 1967 2,135]

Having a second look maybe a good find

[PWA 1967 2,135]

Martin beat me to it

[Peter 615]

Not sure now..Would feel in hand the best thing is to send to cgs. Does not look right to me.However i am normally wrong

They would not slab it due to the verdigris.

[coinkat 21]

Would CGS just confirm it as genuine only? That might be worth exploring

[azda 979]

Would CGS just confirm it as genuine only? That might be worth exploring

a blatant number 4 would'nt need confirming. If its to be sold the auction house wouöd also confirm what it is, so no point in wasting £30 and 3 months wait on confirmation.

[Peckris 579]

Not sure now..Would feel in hand the best thing is to send to cgs. Does not look right to me.However i am normally wrong

They would not slab it due to the verdigris.

The 'verdigris' is inactive - a coin green from being buried keeps that patina forever, and doesn't deteriorate further; there's often no pitting either, just a glossy green finish. However, someone ought to authenticate it before it goes into auction, as that will ensure a good price for it.

[PWA 1967 2,135]

Suppose what i meant was get it authenticated and then either keep it or move on.Small price to pay for a coin that might be worth a few quid.

[bronze mad 4]

Feel free to come round Bronze Mad haha, must have been 5 years ago at least when I found this coin. Had it sitting amongst some others in a tin, wish I took a bit more care of it now. I tried my best to get a good shot and hopefully it's good enough, definetly looks like a four to me!

lol!, what a great find!, looks like a four to me, it seems that there are a few more around these days from when freemans book was released 30 yrs ago.

neverthe less the die number varieties are well known amongst penny colletors and are highly sought after,

keep it, as it will always be of value, and when you sell it do it through a good auction, like london coins etc.

[coinkat 21]

DNW auctioned an example about 8-9 years ago. A decent coin that had some rim hits.

[DaveyJones 1]

Looks like I had a very good find then, I'll probably hold on to it for a while anyway. Where would be the best place to get it authenticated? Also would coin capsules be a good way to store it in the meantime? I did purchase a few plastic holders but then I read about PVC damage online so it's probably best to avoid that now.

[PWA 1967 2,135]

Send it to c.g.s although busy at the moment with the auction in a couple of week.Might take a month but three different graders share an opinion and for twenty three pound well worth the money

[bronze mad 4]

Looks like I had a very good find then, I'll probably hold on to it for a while anyway. Where would be the best place to get it authenticated? Also would coin capsules be a good way to store it in the meantime? I did purchase a few plastic holders but then I read about PVC damage online so it's probably best to avoid that now.

plastic holders will be fine for that coin, its got a green patina on it already so it won't get worse, I can't believe it came from your own garden! that will take some beating! but this is generally how rare coins come about, either dug up or amongst hoards.

Personally to get it authenticated I would take it to London coins and get one of their consultants to view it.

I'm sure other members on the forum will shed some more light on that matter for you.