Getting back into collecting

[RobAI 0]

Hi everyone!

I recently found my collection from when I was about 12 and I'd really like to get back into it. I've read around the forum and the advice seems to be to collect what you enjoy and to buy as high grade as you can afford. I know what I like - pennies, half crowns and crowns because of their long histories, their size and weight and how they feel to hold. Crowns and half-crowns are out of my budget so I'd like to start with pennies and I'm thinking about collecting one per decade (to start with) and going back as far as I can. The thing is I actually prefer circulated coins which look and feel as though they have had at least some use rather than being in perfect condition. And since I also want to be able to handle them regularly, it seems like there's not much sense in paying a premium for the highest grades.

Is this a good idea? How careful do I need to be when handling, say, a George III VF or EF penny? This will definitely be for enjoyment as opposed to an investment but at the same time I don't really want to be throwing money away, plus trying to find value when looking for a coin is part of the fun I think.

Thanks

[Rob 3,152]

One per decade! How long do you intend to live?

Welcome to the mad house.

[RobAI 0]

Haha, took me a minute ....

[TomGoodheart 402]

LOL Welcome Rob. Bottom line is that coins can be handled if it's done carefully, however if you just look at the coins in your change you will see that the toning (original colour) and lustre (sheen) of newly struck copper coins can go quite quickly if they are exposed to certain conditions.

The important thing is not to touch the top or bottom surfaces (obverse/reverse) as the moisture and oils on your fingers will leave traces that will darken with time.

Of course, there is nothing wrong (to my eyes at least) with a toned copper or bronze coin. Here's one of mine (Copper, about the size of an old shilling and with (I think) a nice chocolate brown tone, though slightly different 'in the hand' as I edited the seller's pics as I've yet to get round to taking my own photos!):



Obviously it's still preferable to only pick them up by the edges, avoid dropping the things and don't give them to children with jammy fingers to play with.

Alternatively for the better/ pricier coins capsules made of plastic can be used. However I sympathise in that I too like to handle my coins. Mine however are generally silver and have been around for a few hundred years so being picked up is less likely to leave marks than shiny copper. But if you're not aiming for 'as struck' examples or proofs then, why not.

You'll still probably want something (a file or box) to store them in. You don't want them knocking against each other, exposed to damp or salty air.

Also avoid coins with verdegris (that green deposit you can find on copper) as it can spread. Look for clean coins with 'eye appeal' and you should be OK.

Chris (forum owner) publishes and stocks a number of books on coins that might help. Plus (I think out of print but still available) there's a grading book by Derek Allen (another member here) which might be of interest still on Amazon if you have a Kindle. Not sure if there's an ePub version - you'd need to ask Chris about that.

Grade (condition/wear) affects price, so it's something you may need to consider. Plus with many coins (and pennies in particular) there are many minor different varieties. But in many cases you need a coin in reasonable condition to be able to tell the difference as they can be small.

What I originally did with shillings was try to collect the first year of issue and then an example of each major change in design. That might be more practical than a coin from each decade as some reigns there are many varieties, others few?

Budget? Down to personal preference really. Some here only collect coins that look as if they were made an hour ago. Others, so long as they can identify what it is, they are happy. OK, better grade coins will normally keep their value if ever you sell. But it's a hobby and there's no point collecting things you don't enjoy collecting or because someone else says that's best! Collect what you like. But don't be surprised if that changes over time. It certainly did with me.

Edited August 20, 2014 by TomGoodheart

[RobAI 0]

Hi Tom, thanks a lot for the info, especially about verdegris - I'll be sure to avoid that.

That's a good suggestion about doing changes in design rather than by decade, I think I'll do that. I'm also already thinking about adding in some choice coins of other denominations so I take your point about changing plans!

I have bought a small chest with some trays and have a spink book on the way. Is it OK to store the coins in the tray without any capsule or seal? This is an example of the sort of condition that I like :

[Peter 615]

As long as your chest and trays are mahogany or rosewood fine avoid other timber.

Welcome collect what appeals.

[Garrett 76]

Welcome Rob !

Nice penny too, not bad at all.

Tom, great post !!!!!

cheers Garrett.

[TomGoodheart 402]

I have bought a small chest with some trays and have a spink book on the way. Is it OK to store the coins in the tray without any capsule or seal?

Nice example Rob. As Peter says, if it's a wooden chest some woods have oils or resins that could affect tone over time. But last time I went to Spink they still brought coins in mahogany trays.

Only thing is you'll hear about 'cabinet friction' which is basically light wear to the highest points on a coin. This is thought to be caused by a coin sliding around as drawers are opened and closed (though may sometimes just be a fancy way of saying slightly worn!) Trays with compartments or something like felt under the coins will minimise this.

I store my coins in a mix of things from wraps of paper (Dad used the pages of one of those tear-off-the-date calendar for some of his), small acid-free paper envelopes and plastic 'flips' (a pair of hinged transparent plastic pockets, one for the coin the other for a bit of paper to write details - if you have any of these from your earlier collecting days might be worth moving the coins I say this because coins often used to come in PVC flips, including the little plastic envelopes banks supplied commemorative crowns etc in, and PVC can damage coins.)

Better coins I have a commercial coin box with plastic trays covered in 'felt' (if you look up Lindner or Lighthouse trays, that sort of thing) and the main collection is in a wooden coin cabinet in drawers:

Like you, I prefer to be able to pick up my coins. Just bear in mind, in a traditional cabinet tray it's tricky not to touch the coin surfaces occasionally as you get them out. That's why for the more modern shiny ones I keep them in 2x2 type holders. For the coin you showed above, I doubt that will be much of a problem though.

Edited August 21, 2014 by TomGoodheart

[Peckris 579]

Hi Tom, thanks a lot for the info, especially about verdegris - I'll be sure to avoid that.

That's a good suggestion about doing changes in design rather than by decade, I think I'll do that. I'm also already thinking about adding in some choice coins of other denominations so I take your point about changing plans!

I have bought a small chest with some trays and have a spink book on the way. Is it OK to store the coins in the tray without any capsule or seal? This is an example of the sort of condition that I like :

That's not your coin, right? Even so, it's a perfectly collectable example of its type, and if all your 18th / early 19th Century coppers were like that, you'd have a nice collection and great fun to acquire.

You could - even now - set out to collect bun pennies in EF, which are a long way below UNC in price being relatively more common. Edward VII too, though by George V you'd want to be looking at GEF minimum (unless you actually PREFER the slightly more worn coins, in which case picking up Geo V will be a doddle).

For 20th Century coins you could add in halfcrowns and crowns, as from 1887 onwards - wreath crowns and Edward VII excepted - examples in EF are affordable. For Edward VII you could settle for a 1902 halfcrown in EF or near.

[Nicholas 51]

Welcome Rob!

I collect hammered coins (mostly silver) because even if they are in EF condition you can handle them pretty much freely (with clean hands obviously). Milled coins especially copper/bronze are the most susceptible to marks and oxidation through handling. I love seeing the details of the original coin and so only collect specimens in good nick. (This does help if you are in this hobby for investment purposes as well) If I collected proof coins, I would have them encapsulated- i.e.dont touch at all. You should find the coins you mentioned for bargain prices- but make sure you shop around or have a trusted local dealer.

Good luck!

Nick

[RobAI 0]

I have bought a small chest with some trays and have a spink book on the way. Is it OK to store the coins in the tray without any capsule or seal?

Nice example Rob. As Peter says, if it's a wooden chest some woods have oils or resins that could affect tone over time. But last time I went to Spink they still brought coins in mahogany trays.

Only thing is you'll hear about 'cabinet friction' which is basically light wear to the highest points on a coin. This is thought to be caused by a coin sliding around as drawers are opened and closed (though may sometimes just be a fancy way of saying slightly worn!) Trays with compartments or something like felt under the coins will minimise this.

I store my coins in a mix of things from wraps of paper (Dad used the pages of one of those tear-off-the-date calendar for some of his), small acid-free paper envelopes and plastic 'flips' (a pair of hinged transparent plastic pockets, one for the coin the other for a bit of paper to write details - if you have any of these from your earlier collecting days might be worth moving the coins I say this because coins often used to come in PVC flips, including the little plastic envelopes banks supplied commemorative crowns etc in, and PVC can damage coins.)

Better coins I have a commercial coin box with plastic trays covered in 'felt' (if you look up Lindner or Lighthouse trays, that sort of thing) and the main collection is in a wooden coin cabinet in drawers:

Tray.jpg

Like you, I prefer to be able to pick up my coins. Just bear in mind, in a traditional cabinet tray it's tricky not to touch the coin surfaces occasionally as you get them out. That's why for the more modern shiny ones I keep them in 2x2 type holders. For the coin you showed above, I doubt that will be much of a problem though.

Thanks. The chest I bought is birch and has felt trays with different size compartments. I will be careful when moving them so as to not move the coins around too much.

I used to store them in an album with plastic slots but it had been sitting in storage for 15 years and it smells a little dank. I suspect it may have been PVC like you say but fortunately there was nothing too valuable in it. I also didn't really like storing them in this at the time because it was a pain to take them out and hold them. I much prefer to have easier access to my coins but at the same time I want to make sure they have enough protection. I will definitely buy some capsules or 2x2's for anything valuable or shiny. Thank you for your help.

[RobAI 0]

Hi Tom, thanks a lot for the info, especially about verdegris - I'll be sure to avoid that.

That's a good suggestion about doing changes in design rather than by decade, I think I'll do that. I'm also already thinking about adding in some choice coins of other denominations so I take your point about changing plans!

I have bought a small chest with some trays and have a spink book on the way. Is it OK to store the coins in the tray without any capsule or seal? This is an example of the sort of condition that I like :

That's not your coin, right? Even so, it's a perfectly collectable example of its type, and if all your 18th / early 19th Century coppers were like that, you'd have a nice collection and great fun to acquire.

You could - even now - set out to collect bun pennies in EF, which are a long way below UNC in price being relatively more common. Edward VII too, though by George V you'd want to be looking at GEF minimum (unless you actually PREFER the slightly more worn coins, in which case picking up Geo V will be a doddle).

For 20th Century coins you could add in halfcrowns and crowns, as from 1887 onwards - wreath crowns and Edward VII excepted - examples in EF are affordable. For Edward VII you could settle for a 1902 halfcrown in EF or near.

It's not my coin - yet It is offered at £25 which seemed to me to be a really good price but I'm a little hesitant because I have no real clue yet when it comes to valuing coins. I know that grading comes with experience and I have tried using some books & websites as references so as to know what to look for. Another thing I'm not sure about is the difference in colour on a 1806/07 penny. I know that uncirculated are always going to look different but even the worn ones appear to be vastly different shades - from almost a dark chocolate brown to a much lighter shade like the one I posted above. Is this from cleaning or just different lighting on the photo?

Thank you for the advice, collecting in EF is just what I was thinking because I like a slightly worn look (I like to think the coin had a useful life!) but at the same time I want most of the detail because they are beautiful to look at. I already have a couple of Victorian half crowns and I love them but I just can't afford to build a large collection of them so I think I will maybe just have 1 really nice silver per monarch.

[RobAI 0]

Welcome Rob!

I collect hammered coins (mostly silver) because even if they are in EF condition you can handle them pretty much freely (with clean hands obviously). Milled coins especially copper/bronze are the most susceptible to marks and oxidation through handling. I love seeing the details of the original coin and so only collect specimens in good nick. (This does help if you are in this hobby for investment purposes as well) If I collected proof coins, I would have them encapsulated- i.e.dont touch at all. You should find the coins you mentioned for bargain prices- but make sure you shop around or have a trusted local dealer.

Good luck!

Nick

Hi Nicholas, thanks for the welcome, I am going to my local dealer today to have a look around. I also have a few proofs that I would like to exchange for some choice older coins because I prefer the historical aspect of collecting. I am really interested in hammered coins as well but I would like to read up more about their history before I start to collect them.

[Peckris 579]

It's not my coin - yet It is offered at £25 which seemed to me to be a really good price but I'm a little hesitant because I have no real clue yet when it comes to valuing coins. I know that grading comes with experience and I have tried using some books & websites as references so as to know what to look for. Another thing I'm not sure about is the difference in colour on a 1806/07 penny. I know that uncirculated are always going to look different but even the worn ones appear to be vastly different shades - from almost a dark chocolate brown to a much lighter shade like the one I posted above. Is this from cleaning or just different lighting on the photo?

Thank you for the advice, collecting in EF is just what I was thinking because I like a slightly worn look (I like to think the coin had a useful life!) but at the same time I want most of the detail because they are beautiful to look at. I already have a couple of Victorian half crowns and I love them but I just can't afford to build a large collection of them so I think I will maybe just have 1 really nice silver per monarch.

I'd say £25 was a perfectly reasonable price for that

There's a very big colour range in 18th Century coppers - from pale red/brown to virtually black. Whether this is due to small variations in the metal mix used, or the environmental conditions of storage, or both, is hard to say. Photography would also be a factor. There is some variation too in bronze, and it doesn't really settle down until the mid-1920s. As long as a coin has eye appeal for you, and it hasn't obviously been polished or cleaned, then go for it!

[RobAI 0]

It's not my coin - yet It is offered at £25 which seemed to me to be a really good price but I'm a little hesitant because I have no real clue yet when it comes to valuing coins. I know that grading comes with experience and I have tried using some books & websites as references so as to know what to look for. Another thing I'm not sure about is the difference in colour on a 1806/07 penny. I know that uncirculated are always going to look different but even the worn ones appear to be vastly different shades - from almost a dark chocolate brown to a much lighter shade like the one I posted above. Is this from cleaning or just different lighting on the photo?

Thank you for the advice, collecting in EF is just what I was thinking because I like a slightly worn look (I like to think the coin had a useful life!) but at the same time I want most of the detail because they are beautiful to look at. I already have a couple of Victorian half crowns and I love them but I just can't afford to build a large collection of them so I think I will maybe just have 1 really nice silver per monarch.

I'd say £25 was a perfectly reasonable price for that

There's a very big colour range in 18th Century coppers - from pale red/brown to virtually black. Whether this is due to small variations in the metal mix used, or the environmental conditions of storage, or both, is hard to say. Photography would also be a factor. There is some variation too in bronze, and it doesn't really settle down until the mid-1920s. As long as a coin has eye appeal for you, and it hasn't obviously been polished or cleaned, then go for it!

That's interesting about the colour range - adds a bit of mystique and individuality! Do I need to be conscious of spotting a coin which has been cleaned? I've read that it greatly reduces a coin's value. I'm guessing this also depends on their metal content?

[HistoricCoinage 146]

It's not my coin - yet It is offered at £25

And it's being offered by one of our forum members.

Looks like it has some deposits on the reverse, though.

[RobAI 0]

It's not my coin - yet It is offered at £25

And it's being offered by one of our forum members.

Looks like it has some deposits on the reverse, though.

Ha, I didn't realise he was a member, I have bookmarked his ebay shop. I don't mind about the deposits as long as they wont naturally get worse. Also I wasn't sure on the forum rules about linking to ebay.

[Rob 3,152]

The residue looks like lacquer

[Peckris 579]

It's not my coin - yet It is offered at £25 which seemed to me to be a really good price but I'm a little hesitant because I have no real clue yet when it comes to valuing coins. I know that grading comes with experience and I have tried using some books & websites as references so as to know what to look for. Another thing I'm not sure about is the difference in colour on a 1806/07 penny. I know that uncirculated are always going to look different but even the worn ones appear to be vastly different shades - from almost a dark chocolate brown to a much lighter shade like the one I posted above. Is this from cleaning or just different lighting on the photo?

Thank you for the advice, collecting in EF is just what I was thinking because I like a slightly worn look (I like to think the coin had a useful life!) but at the same time I want most of the detail because they are beautiful to look at. I already have a couple of Victorian half crowns and I love them but I just can't afford to build a large collection of them so I think I will maybe just have 1 really nice silver per monarch.

I'd say £25 was a perfectly reasonable price for that

There's a very big colour range in 18th Century coppers - from pale red/brown to virtually black. Whether this is due to small variations in the metal mix used, or the environmental conditions of storage, or both, is hard to say. Photography would also be a factor. There is some variation too in bronze, and it doesn't really settle down until the mid-1920s. As long as a coin has eye appeal for you, and it hasn't obviously been polished or cleaned, then go for it!

That's interesting about the colour range - adds a bit of mystique and individuality! Do I need to be conscious of spotting a coin which has been cleaned? I've read that it greatly reduces a coin's value. I'm guessing this also depends on their metal content?

Cleaned copper is usually pretty easy to spot - it has an unusual bright look as if Brasso or something similar had been used. You can't use dip for copper, but it can be 'whizzed' (you'll see faint striations all over it) or some chemical may have been used which again will make the coin look unnatural.

[PWA 1967 2,135]

Be interesting to hear johns opinon ,has it been cleaned,I have dealt with you before and would like your view

[RobAI 0]

The penny arrived this morning, looks great! thanks John

[Peter 615]

Try a bit of verdicare or 100% accetone with a cotton bud.

John is well respected.

Enjoy the coin it looks great.

[RobAI 0]

Try a bit of verdicare or 100% accetone with a cotton bud.

John is well respected.

Enjoy the coin it looks great.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind but I better wait until I have some idea of what i'm doing

[RobAI 0]

Hi guys, I have been trying to learn how to grade and value coins and wanted to see how far off I am on a coin I was looking at:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1862-Queen-Victoria-Penny-/191292416641?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item2c89eaa281

I am thinking this coin is in GVF condition in which case its value is about £25-30?

Thanks for any help.

[Garrett 76]

I am not an advanced collector but it looks a bit cleaned to me.

Not an unattractive coin though, having said that.