Alex Salmond

[scottishmoney 29]

I have been reading various accounts of whether Scotland would become a republic or retain QEI as monarch. As a part time resident of Balmoral I wonder if she will vote?

[scottishmoney 29]

Was seeing on the BBC a bit ago that they are starting their major coverage at 2200 GMT whence the polls close. Extended voting to 16 year olds, voting into the night - what other concessions have been made to make this possible?

[Rob 3,152]

Was seeing on the BBC a bit ago that they are starting their major coverage at 2200 GMT whence the polls close. Extended voting to 16 year olds, voting into the night - what other concessions have been made to make this possible?

The vote at 16 is in my view contentious and somewhat unwise. Granted there is the aspect that youth is idealistic and radical which would therefore help the SNP cause, but more importantly very few kids pay any attention to the news. It is giving a large dollop of faith to assume that a group which normally isolates itself from current affairs can suddenly make a balanced decision arrived at on their own. They will live at home in all bar a few cases which is likely to influence them unduly as they are unlikely to be exposed to the wider arguments. Being at school and living a life where things are provided for is a world of difference from that of adults who have to gain exposure to the outside world. I'm sure that many will take an interest in it, but I'm not sure that many are equipped to assimilate all the information and experiences of people living in the wider community, which is where the real case for independence or union is made. Until you have to leave home and participate in the day to day running of society your views are likely to be somewhat naive.

The big danger is that this section will contain a larger number of emotional as opposed to reasoned voters.

The polls always close at 10pm in this country

Edited September 18, 2014 by Rob

[azda 979]

Its a Nervy day all round. Should Cameron resign should the vote be a yes? Would there be a General election in The Rest of the UK?

[scottishmoney 29]

Its a Nervy day all round. Should Cameron resign should the vote be a yes? Would there be a General election in The Rest of the UK?

Back in days of old when knights were bold and forgiveness wasn't invented he'd have his head racked up on a pike tall and cold and look not contented.

[Peckris 579]

But as one of the biggest stories around (and certainly the biggest affecting the UK at present) surely the BBC is obliged to report on it?

As for balance and impartiality, well, for an issue that stirs the emotions they are never going to steer clear of accusations of bias, whatever they do.

Agreed, but they are ramming it don't own throats and treating it as a great big circus. I'll be glad when it's all over and we can get back to the Pistorius trial.

You're a bit late aren't you? Verdict already handed down...

The verdict maybe but still awaiting his conviction

Pardon? Enlighten me on the subtle difference between being convicted and conviction!! All we're waiting on is the sentence ... though I admit that's of major interest

[Nick 329]

Its a Nervy day all round. Should Cameron resign should the vote be a yes? Would there be a General election in The Rest of the UK?

It might be a nervy day for Scots, but not for anybody else. If it is a yes, why should any decision by a foreign country have any effect on who is the Prime Minister of the rest of the UK? I don't suppose Alex Salmond will be leaping on his dagger if it's a no.

[azda 979]

Nick you seem to be forgetting 1 slight detail, we'll still be a part of the Union for another 18 months until you boys sort oot the new flagg etc and Westminster amd edinburgh have ironed oot the details. I love how Snotty people can get and how they think it takes 24 hours for 4 countires to sort out a bit of a mess.

P.s 1 Polling Station is now closed at 8pm due to its 100% turnout

[Accumulator 52]

Nick you seem to be forgetting 1 slight detail, we'll still be a part of the Union for another 18 months until you boys sort oot the new flagg etc and Westminster amd edinburgh have ironed oot the details. I love how Snotty people can get and how they think it takes 24 hours for 4 countires to sort out a bit of a mess.

P.s 1 Polling Station is now closed at 8pm due to its 100% turnout

You mean the sole inhabitant of the isle of McTaggart didn't get out of bed and along to vote until 8.00pm?

[Rob 3,152]

If one good thing has come out of this it is the engagement with the electorate. What was the lowest turnout of all time? 11% in a local election, or for a police commissioner? Something like that. If 97% of people register, that is a huge leap forward.

[Rob 3,152]

Already looks like a done deal for the No campaign. Hostilities start at 9am. I'm not sure where this leaves us because the sweeteners offered to Scotland will have to be given in some form to N Ireland and Wales too. On the assumption that London will demand additional investment and probably get it, coupled with the finite size of the pot and promised expenditure elsewhere I can only conclude that the north of England is b******d

[azda 979]

Nick you seem to be forgetting 1 slight detail, we'll still be a part of the Union for another 18 months until you boys sort oot the new flagg etc and Westminster amd edinburgh have ironed oot the details. I love how Snotty people can get and how they think it takes 24 hours for 4 countires to sort out a bit of a mess.

P.s 1 Polling Station is now closed at 8pm due to its 100% turnout

You mean the sole inhabitant of the isle of McTaggart didn't get out of bed and along to vote until 8.00pm?

It was Falkirk, there is about 50,000 there

[azda 979]

Already looks like a done deal for the No campaign. Hostilities start at 9am. I'm not sure where this leaves us because the sweeteners offered to Scotland will have to be given in some form to N Ireland and Wales too. On the assumption that London will demand additional investment and probably get it, coupled with the finite size of the pot and promised expenditure elsewhere I can only conclude that the north of England is b******d

There will be no sweetners Rob, Westminster want to screw Scotland for more money taking away 4 Billion a year meaning a few more foodbanks opening, prescription fees etc all having to be paid for and bending over and generally getting buggered by Westminster as usual. It seems English Masters once again and not neighbours as we Hopes for. Idiots is all i can say

[azda 979]

Well looks like Scotland needs some new kneepads. Cannot believe they voted for more foodbanks and more cuts and a privatised NHS, absolute idiots

[Accumulator 52]

So after all that fuss and expense, approximately 2% of the UK's population voted for Scotland's independence.

[azda 979]

So after all that fuss and expense, approximately 2% of the UK's population voted for Scotland's independence.

The SNP side was paid for by the Euro millions lotto winters who won 186 million, so that won't come from the taypayers pocket. The 3 amigos visit and the Bird they use to Write some shite on a piece of paper however i cannot say who will pay for their jaunt

[Rob 3,152]

Already looks like a done deal for the No campaign. Hostilities start at 9am. I'm not sure where this leaves us because the sweeteners offered to Scotland will have to be given in some form to N Ireland and Wales too. On the assumption that London will demand additional investment and probably get it, coupled with the finite size of the pot and promised expenditure elsewhere I can only conclude that the north of England is b******d

There will be no sweetners Rob, Westminster want to screw Scotland for more money taking away 4 Billion a year meaning a few more foodbanks opening, prescription fees etc all having to be paid for and bending over and generally getting buggered by Westminster as usual. It seems English Masters once again and not neighbours as we Hopes for. Idiots is all i can say

Yes, but the question of the No campaign offering extras in the immediate run up to the vote means that Scotland's share of the pie is likely to increase more than was intended by Westminster. That will awaken the Welsh and Irish to demand more for their areas. If it leads to a completely devolved UK there will be considerable additional costs for all, just as a Yes vote would have resulted in massive relocation of assets and the construction of duplicated infrastructure in running the two governments. Whichever route was taken was always going to result in increased expenditure on admin infrastructure (which is in nobody's interest). Whether the politicians will accept the diminution of their powers remains to be seen.

For all the nationalist arguments regarding Scotland (and Wales & Ireland), there are a lot of people in England who also dislike the status quo. English is the only one of the four countries that does not have a body to oversee English matters, so anything to do with England is decided by Scottish, Welsh and Irish politicians. The problems of inner city Glasgow etc are mirrored in Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle, Birmingham etc. Scotland's view of Westminster is not dissimilar to the view of London and the south-east from the rest of the country.

Under the Barnett formula, Scotland receives more per head from Westminster than the English regions, yet irrespective of the rights or wrongs of this, people still accept these conditions. I believe this will change with a hardening of attitudes in the other three areas as all four constituents have a significant minority of nationalists. The question of Scottish MPs voting on English, Welsh or Irish matters will have to be resolved - finally.

As discussed by the commentators, all this points to a federal UK as the logical outcome and I think we will see a lot of horse trading in the run up to the next election because of what is at stake.

As for the numbers game where a billion here or there is allegedly given or taken away from any country is a number that is impossible to quantify with any certainty. If Scotland is say for example 10% of the UK and that the oil reserves account for 10% of the value of the UK, do we then pull down the infrastructure and redistribute it among the other 3 countries leaving an independent Scotland as a country sitting on a large barrel of oil and no infrastructure? Obviously not. These uncertainties are why disentangling the two countries would have been so messy, divisive and ultimately acrimonious. The same arguments used by the Scottish Nationalists would be used by their counterparts in the rest of the UK, because every nationalist thinks they are being screwed by the other side. Given the centuries of integration, that is why we should be better off staying together.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Rob

[Peckris 579]

For all the nationalist arguments regarding Scotland (and Wales & Ireland), there are a lot of people in England who also dislike the status quo. English is the only one of the four countries that does not have a body to oversee English matters, so anything to do with England is decided by Scottish, Welsh and Irish politicians. The problems of inner city Glasgow etc are mirrored in Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle, Birmingham etc. Scotland's view of Westminster is not dissimilar to the view of London and the south-east from the rest of the country.

Ha! Even if there was one, it would be a bunch of fat cat South-Easterners lording it over the North ... 'twas ever thus. Funny how ever since the Tudors, there hasn't been a single ruler or elected body that gave a tinker's fig about people who live north of Cannock Chase.

[azda 979]

Only London matters Peck, its the centre of the universe

[davidrj 194]

We could go back to this

But sorry Dave, no border between England & Scotland (just a modern invention)

Edited September 19, 2014 by davidrj

[Nick 329]

Much has been made of the difference between the public spending per head between Scotland and England, but there are also many differences between other regions/countries of the UK. Here are the numbers for 2012/13.

Region/Country £/head

London 9,435

North East 9,419

North West 9,252

Yorkshire and the Humber 8,610

West Midlands 8,498

South West 8,219

East Midlands 8,118

East 7,865

South East 7,638

Northern Ireland 10,876

Scotland 10,152

Wales 9,709

England 8,529

[scottishmoney 29]

No doubt at all that all British citizens will thence benefit from the collective nation having overcome a serious trial by an election. Salmond have brought upon a discussion, the one aspect of which has been resolved - but the government in the whole shall have been afforded the opportunity to be much more representative of all it's citizenry.

[scottishmoney 29]

We could go back to this

But sorry Dave, no border between England & Scotland (just a modern invention)

A more apropro recognition would factor the Kingdom of Northumbria which broached both sides of Hadrian's wall.

[azda 979]

The government says it wants to reform the barnett formula, its the government that should be reformed as none of them are doing anything for anyone

[davidrj 194]

Okay, so I know the map above is a flippant comment, but the more serious question has to be - are there any true borders?

Most of Africa, E.Europe & the Middle East have borders reflecting either past colonial land grabs or provisions of the Treaty of Versailles - neither of which paid any notice of the wishes of local populations, or respected ethnic, religious or cultural traditions.

New borders cause their own problems - look at the horrors of the relocation of populations between Greece & Turkey, or post independence India & Pakistan.

Most separatists dream of a return to their own perceived "Golden Age" - so post Yugoslav Serbia wanted a return to the borders prior the the battle of Kosovo Polje in 1389 (defeat by the Ottomans), I witnessed the aftermath personally in Kosova in 2001

So I'm an internationalist, BUT with a strong belief in subsidiarity. The UK is better in Europe in my view, but England does need urgent decentralisation with more decision making at regional level.

Hopefully Westminster will take note of the Scottish result, be interesting to see the parties' manifestos for next year's general election

David