More Pennies

[Martinminerva 330]

1 hour ago, secret santa said:

So, the jury's still out.

Despite the awful photography of example 20, I'm convinced they're the same coin... Too many of the dings and scratches would seem to match up rather well - angle of lighting might account for why the deep dings on 21 seem much less deep and indistinct on 20. Plus of course the poor resolution and focus!

Fairly moot point anyway, whether there are 20 or 21 recorded specimens (I'm sure there'll be a good few others out there as yet un-spotted), but the fact they appeared on Richard's site sequentially just alerted me to the potential of them being one and the same!

[1949threepence 3,367]

11 hours ago, Martinminerva said:

Despite the awful photography of example 20, I'm convinced they're the same coin... Too many of the dings and scratches would seem to match up rather well - angle of lighting might account for why the deep dings on 21 seem much less deep and indistinct on 20. Plus of course the poor resolution and focus!

Fairly moot point anyway, whether there are 20 or 21 recorded specimens (I'm sure there'll be a good few others out there as yet un-spotted), but the fact they appeared on Richard's site sequentially just alerted me to the potential of them being one and the same!

I think it more probable than not, that you are correct. But not definitively so. 

[alfnail 845]

I see that someone got 'suckered' into buying this, it's a 😭shame!

1856 Queen Victoria Copper Penny. High Grade. | eBay

 

[Martinminerva 330]

1 hour ago, alfnail said:

I see that someone got 'suckered' into buying this, it's a 😭shame!

And this... (same seller):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1826-King-Geo-IV-penny-coin-high-grade-/325742601973?nma=true&si=i8aQZwnOvkcF3efgsg06PXTkhUE%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Not good. Caveat emptor only goes so far... But the buyer has left positive feedback, so there's one (or several, with the underbidders) born every minute!

Edited August 12, 2023 by Martinminerva
typo

[1949threepence 3,367]

8 hours ago, alfnail said:

I see that someone got 'suckered' into buying this, it's a 😭shame!

1856 Queen Victoria Copper Penny. High Grade. | eBay

 

Most likely an enthusiastic but young and naive buyer, Ian. I see a lot of it on facebook.

[secret santa 2,325]

On 8/8/2023 at 9:47 AM, secret santa said:

It's a pity that the catalogue doesn't contain a narrative description of Philip Richardson and his collection.

I've just received the catalogue and it deserves to be prized as a very well illustrated set of coins. 

[secret santa 2,325]

On 8/8/2023 at 4:35 PM, secret santa said:

I can't make up my mind, but I've emailed the guy who sent me the pics of example 20 to ask if he put it into LCA's sale.

Re the discussion about 1909 F169 examples 20 and 21 being the same coin, the supplier of the picture of number 20 says that they are not.....

But that vertical line does look similar.........

[1949threepence 3,367]

4 hours ago, secret santa said:

I've just received the catalogue and it deserves to be prized as a very well illustrated set of coins. 

Some fantastic coins in that collection, including 2 of that rather strange 1806/1805 mule.

[oldcopper 286]

9 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Some fantastic coins in that collection, including 2 of that rather strange 1806/1805 mule.

One of them went for £2,200 in the Spink Sept 2015 auction, that provenance mentioned in the catalogue, as part of a collection (Andy Scott?). Nice coin in that case, a bit mottled on the reverse, but unfortunately quite a few other coins in that collection were artificially toned. And even worse was in one that I bought, the colour was more like painted on rather than baked in (however they do it!), as even a light dab of a cotton glove to remove a bit of debris resulted in a light brown area of under-copper suddenly appearing amongst all that colour! 

Unsurprisingly I was not happy, but rubbing that side on a carpet did make it look better if a little weird, and I sold it soon after. Then it reappeared in another dealer's tray at the LCF a few months later looking vastly "improved"! Poor coin.

The KT3 gilt is interesting - fantastic looking coin. I saw it at St James auction 2014 preview, and this is the only time I had ever seen this, but the coin had been shrink-wrapped, or perhaps "vacuum packed" in a cellophane or clingfilm type plastic skin. I asked Mr Fenton about this and he airily said it was for protection. It only occurred to me afterwards to wonder how you would take it off.

I presume it's not been slabbed still in its plastic skin,  though I notice DNW haven't mentioned the slabbing grade in their catalogue. "Unc details - clingfilmed" perhaps!?

 

[1949threepence 3,367]

3 hours ago, oldcopper said:

One of them went for £2,200 in the Spink Sept 2015 auction, that provenance mentioned in the catalogue, as part of a collection (Andy Scott?). Nice coin in that case, a bit mottled on the reverse, but unfortunately quite a few other coins in that collection were artificially toned. And even worse was in one that I bought, the colour was more like painted on rather than baked in (however they do it!), as even a light dab of a cotton glove to remove a bit of debris resulted in a light brown area of under-copper suddenly appearing amongst all that colour! 

Unsurprisingly I was not happy, but rubbing that side on a carpet did make it look better if a little weird, and I sold it soon after. Then it reappeared in another dealer's tray at the LCF a few months later looking vastly "improved"! Poor coin.

The KT3 gilt is interesting - fantastic looking coin. I saw it at St James auction 2014 preview, and this is the only time I had ever seen this, but the coin had been shrink-wrapped, or perhaps "vacuum packed" in a cellophane or clingfilm type plastic skin. I asked Mr Fenton about this and he airily said it was for protection. It only occurred to me afterwards to wonder how you would take it off.

I presume it's not been slabbed still in its plastic skin,  though I notice DNW haven't mentioned the slabbing grade in their catalogue. "Unc details - clingfilmed" perhaps!?

 

It astounds me that many dealers and sellers alike, have still not learned the adverse lessson of using plastic packaging for coins.....

....and that's just plastic envelopes. What you describe above sounds horrendously damaging.

Anyway, thanks for the info. 

[oldcopper 286]

20 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

It astounds me that many dealers and sellers alike, have still not learned the adverse lessson of using plastic packaging for coins.....

....and that's just plastic envelopes. What you describe above sounds horrendously damaging.

Anyway, thanks for the info. 

Though DNW say on the web that it's been graded by NCG without specifying a grade, now I've received the hard catalogue (£25 - ouch!) that isn't in it.

Some of the collection has been only recently slabbed (as they weren't bought as slabbed), but some of it is not slabbed, including some big items like the silver P.1086. And some coins have been removed from slabs. It seems quite random, and not dependant on date of purchase. It would be interesting to know why.

[1949threepence 3,367]

2 hours ago, oldcopper said:

Though DNW say on the web that it's been graded by NCG without specifying a grade, now I've received the hard catalogue (£25 - ouch!) that isn't in it.

Some of the collection has been only recently slabbed (as they weren't bought as slabbed), but some of it is not slabbed, including some big items like the silver P.1086. And some coins have been removed from slabs. It seems quite random, and not dependant on date of purchase. It would be interesting to know why.

Yes, it does seem random, as many of the coins aren't slabbed. Some were slabbed years ago and have already gone past the 10 year expiry date, and some have only just been done and have an expiry date of June 2033.I would think done at Noonan's behest after seeking Richardson's permission.

Interesting that the now slabbed 1806/1805, is "top pop" - no doubt because it's the only example there.

Might be worth making an enquiry about the KT3 in the sense of why no further expansion beyond the fact that it was slabbed by NGC. Is it now?  

[oldcopper 286]

5 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Yes, it does seem random, as many of the coins aren't slabbed. Some were slabbed years ago and have already gone past the 10 year expiry date, and some have only just been done and have an expiry date of June 2033.I would think done at Noonan's behest after seeking Richardson's permission.

Interesting that the now slabbed 1806/1805, is "top pop" - no doubt because it's the only example there.

Might be worth making an enquiry about the KT3 in the sense of why no further expansion beyond the fact that it was slabbed by NGC. Is it now?  

Yes, I expect I'll go and have a look at them at some stage.

[PWA 1967 2,135]

A couple of new ones for a date run i have been putting together since selling my others.

1893 and 1904 ,both hard years to find so nice.

[Peckris 2 2,127]

Superb 1904, which is REALLY difficult in top grade. 1893 is only difficult compared to the previous 5 or 6 years which are not hard to find.

[jelida 1,314]

Not in the best of condition, and not cheap at $500 BIN (just over £400) but I am still pleased with this F27. The obverse scratches do not show so intrusively in natural light.

Jerry

[PWA 1967 2,135]

On 8/11/2023 at 9:46 PM, Martinminerva said:

Despite the awful photography of example 20, I'm convinced they're the same coin... Too many of the dings and scratches would seem to match up rather well - angle of lighting might account for why the deep dings on 21 seem much less deep and indistinct on 20. Plus of course the poor resolution and focus!

Fairly moot point anyway, whether there are 20 or 21 recorded specimens (I'm sure there'll be a good few others out there as yet un-spotted), but the fact they appeared on Richard's site sequentially just alerted me to the potential of them being one and the same!

Yes its definitely the same coin ,i bought it after the Auction.

[Martinminerva 330]

8 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

Yes its definitely the same coin ,i bought it after the Auction.

Thought so!

[Kipster 217]

Picked up this rather nice one last week. The 15 leaf variety.

 

[PWA 1967 2,135]

Quite a lot of pennies in the next Baldwin auction.

https://thestrand.com/auctions/calendar/list#/auctions/5cec2514-7637-4f39-b576-3be0db39d6ad?q=penny&department=BDW&lot_status=all&auction_uuid=5cec2514-7637-4f39-b576-3be0db39d6ad

 

[DrLarry 443]

I have listed a number of "interesting mint errors " early 1860 pennies on ebay which may interest some of you.  brockages and off centred strikes and some error coins along with a lot of others .  I think it is time to stop buying and start selling collecting served its purpose and I need some new windows and the projects in South Africa need some income .  It will take about 20 years to get rid of everything .  larryg1508 if anyone is looking for things please ask and if I have it i'll list it.  

[pies 33]

F13

 

 

[PWA 1967 2,135]

Must have looked at hundreds / thousands to find one in a decent grade for type 😂

Gouby BP1895Bb Wide date.

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by PWA 1967

[alfnail 845]

Does anyone know if Mike Hopkins is ok?

He used to post several times a week, but I haven't seen a single post from him now for several weeks.

Thanks

[Peckris 2 2,127]

10 hours ago, alfnail said:

Does anyone know if Mike Hopkins is ok?

He used to post several times a week, but I haven't seen a single post from him now for several weeks.

Thanks

Is that 1949Threepence?