Edward VI halfcrown

[Peter99 0]

This Edward VI halfcrown of 1551 was bequeathed to me some 12 years ago and valued by a friend, at the time,

at £100 and graded as 'fair'.

It was purchased, I believe, some time in the '90's from Dolphin Coins and as can be seen from the attachments

appear to have been purchased for £275 with a grading of 'gfine'

Assuming it was purchased in 1999, the current Bank of England inflation calculator gives a current value of

about £430.

Might I trouble you to suggest a current value and your opinion of it's grade?

Many thanks!

[azda 979]

For grade i'd say near fine/fine and value perhaps between £350-£500. Just as an aside, what the current BoE says the money paid back then is worth now is a little irrelevant, it's what the coin is worth now. Do you have a copy of Spink 2015? Or even have a look through some recent auction realised prices to get a true reflection of its possible value

Edited April 18, 2015 by azda

[Peter99 0]

Thanks for your opinion David which I do much appreciate.

I ordered yesterday a 2015 copy of Spinks and am awaiting delivery.

But even with a Spinks, I am not always sure that this type of catalogue is ever in touch with the real world!

Where as, I would suspect that is forum is! Very much!

[azda 979]

Spink are generally about 6 months out of touch as they compile Prices from the previous year, check www.londoncoins.co.uk and look for realised Prices from their most recent auctions

[Nicholas 51]

My view is Spink creates the market prices. Sorry.

[TomGoodheart 403]

This Edward VI halfcrown of 1551 was bequeathed to me some 12 years ago and valued by a friend, at the time,

at £100 and graded as 'fair'.

It was purchased, I believe, some time in the '90's from Dolphin Coins and as can be seen from the attachments

appear to have been purchased for £275 with a grading of 'gfine'

I'm guessing it appears in List 2 or 3 (1992/93) neither of which I have sadly. The numbering is consistent with the then lists. By list 5 he used larger numbers and had switched to tickets with a blue imprint of a dolphin on them.

I don't know if any other members might have those lists. Rob's most likely but as we know he's a bit busy at present!

While up-to-date price guides might be helpful, old sales catalogues and auction listings are often just as valuble (if not more, when trying to establish provenance!)

.

[Coinery 1,156]

My view is Spink creates the market prices. Sorry.

My thought too!

[TomGoodheart 403]

My view is Spink creates the market prices. Sorry.

My thought too!

Well, in a bit of a threadjack, my view is it's worth remembering there are no fixed prices for coins. Yes, due to popularity and availability Spink does influence what people demand or are prepared to pay, but in the end it's down to buyer and seller on the day.

For some coins such as a 1727 shilling it's possible to establish, for a given condition, a narrow price range below which one would have to be very fortunate to find an example and above which it would be foolish.

But with hammered coinage it's much more difficult to be precise. On a given day a buyer might be prepared to pay a lot more, or a lot less, for a particular coin, whatever the 'book' value. The Americans (primarily) have tried to pin things down somewhat by use of third party grading and 'Red Books' etc, but that only works with modern machine made coinage .. and even then there will always be disagreement!

The 'best' solution is a good knowledge of your chosen coinage and the market. However that's not easy. I collect one denomination from a narrow range of years but I have over 1500 records of Charles I shillings and their price alone. And that doesn't include the examples I decided were too worn or horrible to bother about. And yet prices at auction can often surprise me, either seeming far too much or conversely cheap for a given coin.

To me the usefulness of Spink is to find out more about coins that I don't know well. The when I've pinned down type and variety I can use auction records and dealer listings to get a better idea about prices. Even then, what one coin sells for today is no guarantee what it will sell for tomorrow. There are fashions in coin collecting as with anything else and what is popular today, tomorrow .. who knows!

.

[Nicholas 51]

Complete agreement Tom. But it's the first port of call...

Edited April 18, 2015 by Nicholas

[Rob 3,152]

It doesn't appear to be in 2 or 3. Haven't looked elsewhere.

Prices in catalogues can be completely misleading. I ran the last 10 purchases made in the open market and compared Spink pricing & CYB to the price I paid. There is is so much variation that it is impossible to conclude anything other than a simple price list such as CYB is virtually useless.

Comparing the price paid to Spink gave results from 0.6x book up to 1.8x. The lowest price paid relative to CYB book price was 0.83x. The highest was 33x, but that is because they supply a single figure to the entire reign of Charles I including the Civil War coinage. Similarly unhelpful were the figures for most hammered, with Saxon and Norman coins also having a single price. In fact, if you have anything other than the most common type of hammered coin for a given reign, you have to use Spink as they are the only chance you have of being able to identify it and put an approx. value to it. The rest are chocolate teapots to varying degrees.

[Nicholas 51]

Since my focus is in hammered coins I too see enormous variation in the market - but for coins above VF grade. Remember Spink does not offer any pricing above this grade for that very reason I believe. There's not one EF price suggested for hammered coins in Spink.

I do though linearly extrapolate for EF pricing...

Edited April 18, 2015 by Nicholas

[sound 25]

Think everything that has been said is correct.

I think as a general rule of thumb, Spink isn't much good for the milled period. But with hammered they seem to be nearer the mark, but don't take their prices verbatim.

Mark

[azda 979]

Think everything that has been said is correct.

I think as a general rule of thumb, Spink isn't much good for the milled period. But with hammered they seem to be nearer the mark, but don't take their prices verbatim.

Mark

I thought we were talking the other way around, for milled it's fine but for hammered not Because as Nicholas pointed out, there are no prices for hammered above VF Plus the rarer variations of hammered coins which it does'nt go into depth on Edited April 18, 2015 by azda

[Rob 3,152]

Think everything that has been said is correct.

I think as a general rule of thumb, Spink isn't much good for the milled period. But with hammered they seem to be nearer the mark, but don't take their prices verbatim.

Mark

I thought we were talking the other way around, for milled it's fine but for hammered not Because as Nicholas pointed out, there are no prices for hammered above VF Plus the rarer variations of hammered coins which it does'nt go into depth on

Compared to all the others, Spink is an encyclopedia of useful information for hammered. It still only covers maybe 20-25% of the varieties in terms of meaningful pricing, but this is way, way better than the alternatives. To expand on the 10 examples I looked at, The ratio of price paid to CYB was just under 1 in three cases, the other 7 started at over 2x, with a couple of double digit multiples.

Taking Saxon coins as an example, a single figure for the 15 types of Edward the Confessor is of no practical use apart from giving a guide to the minimum price you can expect to pay - but you could establish that by viewing a few tables at a fair or perusing a few websites. Then you also have to consider the relative rarities of different mints. Only Spink lists these together with a rough cost in VF.

I would say that cheap and cheerful price guides are predominantly used by people who are looking at the budget end of the market in any case, so the numbers for unc coins to a large extent serve little purpose. Spink are unquestionably overpriced for some of the milled, and for many coins in lower grades prices are effectively set by eBay, whatever the books say.

[sound 25]

Think everything that has been said is correct.

I think as a general rule of thumb, Spink isn't much good for the milled period. But with hammered they seem to be nearer the mark, but don't take their prices verbatim.

Mark

I thought we were talking the other way around, for milled it's fine but for hammered not Because as Nicholas pointed out, there are no prices for hammered above VF Plus the rarer variations of hammered coins which it does'nt go into depth on

Dave,

I agree you have to do more work to find above VF with hammered. However Spink are next to useless in pricing 'most' milled coins many overpriced and some considerably underpriced.

What I do think Spink do is provide an outstanding catalogue couldn't agree more with Rob on that. But for the reasons stated I don't buy it every year.

Having said that others may disagree, but of course that's what makes a market.

Mark

[azda 979]

Yes, considering there was'nt much noteworthy Changes in prices this year i'll not be buying the 2016 edition at the end of this year.

It seems it's easier just to check realised prices, but the variables come into play above VF for hammered coinage of which it's easier winning the lottery than to Even get a grasp of those right now. it seems like you just double the VF Price of the coin in question and you have your figure.

Although, saying all that, for a more realistic price Guide for Milled, the CCGB is out there, but nothing for hammered as realistic as CCGB

Edited April 18, 2015 by azda

[sound 25]

Yes, considering there was'nt much noteworthy Changes in prices this year i'll not be buying the 2016 edition at the end of this year.

It seems it's easier just to check realised prices, but the variables come into play above VF for hammered coinage of which it's easier winning the lottery than to Even get a grasp of those right now. it seems like you just double the VF Price of the coin in question and you have your figure.

Although, saying all that, for a more realistic price Guide for Milled, the CCGB is out there, but nothing for hammered as realistic as CCGB

Could not agree more.

Mark

[Coinery 1,156]

I'd say treble+ for EF...not that such a thing exists in my eyes!

There is 'as-struck' in hammered, as far as I'm concerned...and then whether you like it clipped, weak, cracked, clogged, ploughed, dinted, cleaned, black with thick encrustations (some living, possibly)...that's my take on things!

I'm not listening to an EF price on anything, or VF for that matter, it's pretty meaningless!

Now, what Spink does for me, is offer me a scenario where I can draw comparisons! I know what a £300 (actual) Elizabeth coin looks like (more or less), which leaves me able to interpret (more or less) what I might expect from an equivalent-priced coin from, say, Charles I or John!

It's not about grade, but I can see how Spink's hands are tied on this point!

If I see an Ed. Con. coin for £50 in Spink, and already know where a £50 penny of Elizabeth sits in the grand scheme of things, I can, specifics aside, quickly determine the likelihood of me finding another, or a better, example quite quickly! And also how quickly someone might rip my hand off if I have one!

That's Spink and hammered grading for me!