? Old Die-Stock James I/Elizabeth I XII

[Coinery 1,270]

Well, while Dave's shilling is still hot, I thought I'd post this random thing.

I while back, Rob got into talking about the re-use of old die stock/bar, and proposed that often a piece of bar/stock would be filed off and reused to sink a new die. He mentioned he'd coins where different legends could be seen below (Charles Halfcrowns I think it was?).

Anyway, I've since found my own examples of this phenomenon, so it's a practice that's clear in my mind now too!

So, whilst I was staring at Dave's proposed R/B James shilling, this jumped out at me! Now, it's pure speculation, but thought it worthy of putting up here, if only to highlight the phenomenon, and have us looking a little more intently at the numismatic potential of such finds. Incidentally, the only REGINA shillings of Elizabeth were the Early ones, which of course were also lis-marked shillings (at least a reasonable percentage were).

I doubt we can take it much further than speculation, unless some of the other marks favour an underlying Elizabeth shilling...

? something diagonal through the bottom loop of the B in BRI?

? Something between the R+I of BRI?

? Something diagonal between the O+B of IACOBVS? (this would be especially interesting)

So, for a bit of fun, here you go...

[Coinery 1,270]

As random as this was....no conversation?

Why are so many posts passing through without interest, or at least a pooh pooh comment at least?

[Rob 3,264]

As random as this was....no conversation?

Why are so many posts passing through without interest, or at least a pooh pooh comment at least?

Probably because the question of reused dies has been addressed here before? Adding a reply along similar lines is akin to a typical academic paper where previously published facts are repackaged and then regurgitated, all from the need to publish a paper in your own name. It is very difficult to continually put a new slant on a topic, and as for adding new material every time then forget it. This is a recurring problem for me at places such as our coin club because I struggle to find sufficient new material to talk about that can't be found elsewhere. There is no way I can do a talk more frequently than every other year without repeating myself - which would bore people.

Anyway, to address the question. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that diestock was reused time and again, with perhaps the most obvious example being the Exeter shilling that went through DNW a few years ago which had 2 nearly full reverse designs visible. There is no practical reason why a die would need to be melted after use as it is not a precision piece of engineering, being just a length of bar with a design engraved on the end.

Of greater interest would be the identity of the underlying die. A reversed N should be quite easy to find when it comes to narrowing down the die options.

[TomGoodheart 447]

I tend to view, but not to post in, such threads because I don't feel I have anything to add!

Though it's very interesting (and I shall keep my eyes open for a shilling with retrograde Ns)

[Rob 3,264]

I tend to view, but not to post in, such threads because I don't feel I have anything to add!

Though it's very interesting (and I shall keep my eyes open for a shilling with retrograde Ns)

I also feel I have nothing to add to most threads,

The underlying die doesn't have to be a shilling

[TomGoodheart 447]

I tend to view, but not to post in, such threads because I don't feel I have anything to add!

Though it's very interesting (and I shall keep my eyes open for a shilling with retrograde Ns)

I also feel I have nothing to add to most threads,

The underlying die doesn't have to be a shilling

Ah. Now that's a useful observation Rob! Perhaps a groat?..

Edited July 4, 2015 by TomGoodheart